GLUTAMINA -badania naukowe, czyli przeznacz pieniądze na co innego ;)

Szanowny Kolego... Nawet najbardziej skrajne opinie na temat najbardziej kontrowersyjnych suplementów nie upoważniają do natarczywości i nieuprzejmego tonu.

Dokładnie Batman. Troche szacunku!

co do kultury osobistej i szacunku - chciałbym by dyskusja byla prowadzona na takim poziomie by nikt nie czuł sie ani atakowany - ani też - lekceważony.

co do dialektyki - to kontrargument "podaj link do badan, że nie jest tak jak mówię", - jest trochę chyba nietypowy w powyższym kontekscie .

Co do wplywu glutaiminy na insulinę - o której Molder pisales - to nie mam zdania, bo brak mi perspektywy (jest to moje ograniczenie).

Faftag. To była moja spontaniczna reakcja - w kontekście toczącej się w tamtym momencie dyskusji. Bo rozumiem: dyskutujemy teoretycznie nad jakimś zagadnieniem i popieramy swoje argumenty badaniami. Ale tu kolega prosił o konkretną poradę, więc mu poradziłem. Ponieważ - jak pisałem - odpowiadam na kilkadziesiąt pytań dziennie, gdybym podpierał linkami każdą odpowiedź, to bym się nie połapał z rozumem.

Wprawdzie Kolega Batman wyjaśnił, że nie chodziło mu o bieżącą, ale wcześniejszą dyskusję, to: ani nie wynikało to z jego poprzedniej wypowiedzi, ani nie pasowało do aktualnego kontekstu, ani nie brzmiało przyjemnie (przeczytajcie).

Tutaj trochę tych badań o glukozaminie (miałem je akurat pod ręką):

Glukozamina – badania.


Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulfate, and the Two in Combination for Painful Knee Osteoarthritis
Daniel O. Clegg, M.D., Domenic J. Reda, Ph.D., Crystal L. Harris, Pharm.D., Marguerite A. Klein, M.S., James R. O'Dell, M.D., Michele M. Hooper, M.D., John D. Bradley, M.D., Clifton O. Bingham, III, M.D., Michael H. Weisman, M.D., Christopher G. Jackson, M.D., Nancy E. Lane, M.D., John J. Cush, M.D., Larry W. Moreland, M.D., H. Ralph Schumacher, Jr., M.D., Chester V. Oddis, M.D., Frederick Wolfe, M.D., Jerry A. Molitor, M.D., David E. Yocum, M.D., Thomas J. Schnitzer, M.D., Daniel E. Furst, M.D., Allen D. Sawitzke, M.D., Helen Shi, M.S., Kenneth D. Brandt, M.D., Roland W. Moskowitz, M.D., and H. James Williams, M.D.


ABSTRACT
Background Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate are used to treat osteoarthritis. The multicenter, double-blind, placebo- and celecoxib-controlled Glucosamine/chondroitin Arthritis Intervention Trial (GAIT) evaluated their efficacy and safety as a treatment for knee pain from osteoarthritis.

Methods We randomly assigned 1583 patients with symptomatic knee osteoarthritis to receive 1500 mg of glucosamine daily, 1200 mg of chondroitin sulfate daily, both glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate, 200 mg of celecoxib daily, or placebo for 24 weeks. Up to 4000 mg of acetaminophen daily was allowed as rescue analgesia. Assignment was stratified according to the severity of knee pain (mild [N=1229] vs. moderate to severe [N=354]). The primary outcome measure was a 20 percent decrease in knee pain from baseline to week 24.

Results The mean age of the patients was 59 years, and 64 percent were women. Overall, glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate were not significantly better than placebo in reducing knee pain by 20 percent. As compared with the rate of response to placebo (60.1 percent), the rate of response to glucosamine was 3.9 percentage points higher (P=0.30), the rate of response to chondroitin sulfate was 5.3 percentage points higher (P=0.17), and the rate of response to combined treatment was 6.5 percentage points higher (P=0.09). The rate of response in the celecoxib control group was 10.0 percentage points higher than that in the placebo control group (P=0.008). For patients with moderate-to-severe pain at baseline, the rate of response was significantly higher with combined therapy than with placebo (79.2 percent vs. 54.3 percent, P=0.002). Adverse events were mild, infrequent, and evenly distributed among the groups.

Conclusions Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate alone or in combination did not reduce pain effectively in the overall group of patients with osteoarthritis of the knee. Exploratory analyses suggest that the combination of glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate may be effective in the subgroup of patients with moderate-to-severe knee pain




Efficacy of glucosamine sulfate treatment in patients with osteoarthritis
Pol Merkur Lekarski. 2007 March.
Glucosamine sulfate, which is precursor of glucosamineglycans synthesis, plays a special role among known disease modifying drugs. To assess the efficacy of treatment of osteoarthritis patients with glucosamine sulfate (Artreum joint formula). 50 patients with OA of the knees (38 pts) or hips (12 pts) entered into study (41 women, 9 men, aged 50-83 yr.). 47 patients completed the study (39 women, 9 men). All patients have been treated with 500 mg of joint formula three times daily for 12 weeks. In this study we found that glucosamine joint formula treatment causes significant improvement in functional status and pain.




Glucosamine administration in athletes: effects on recovery of acute knee injury.
Res Sports Med. 2007 Apr-June Institute of Sports Medicine, Sports Academy, Belgrade, Serbia.
The main aim of this study was to examine the effects of 4 weeks of glucosamine administration on the functional ability and the degree of pain intensity in competitive male athletes after acute knee injury. This study was a randomized, double-blind parallel trial of glucosamine (1500 mg per day) or a placebo for 28 days, utilising 106 patients with an acute knee injury. No significant difference was found between the glucosamine, and placebo group in mean pain intensity scores for resting and walking, and degree of knee swelling. There was no significant difference between passive knee flexibilityt. After 28 days of treatment the patients from the glucosamine group demonstrated significant improvement in knee flexion and extension as compared with the placebo group.



Glucosamine and chondroitin study
The effect of glucosamine and/or chondroitin sulfate on the progression of knee osteoarthritis: A report from the glucosamine / chondroitin arthritis intervention trial.
Arthritis Rheum. 2008 Oct. Sawitzke AD, Shi H, Finco MF, Dunlop DD, Bingham CO 3rd, Harris CL, Singer NG, Bradley JD, Silver D, Jackson CG, Lane NE, Oddis CV, Wolfe F, Lisse J, Furst DE, Reda DJ, Moskowitz RW, Williams HJ, Clegg DO. University of Utah School of Medicine, Salt Lake City.
This study was undertaken to evaluate the effect of glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate, alone or in combination, as well as celecoxib and placebo on progressive loss of joint space width in patients with knee osteoarthritis. A 24-month, double-blind, placebo-controlled study, conducted at 9 sites in the United States as part of the Glucosamine / Chondroitin Arthritis Intervention Trial (GAIT), enrolled 572 patients with knee osteoarthritis who satisfied radiographic criteria (Kellgren / Lawrence [K/L] grade 2 or grade 3 changes and joint space width of at least 2 mm at baseline). Patients with primarily lateral compartment narrowing at any time point were excluded. Patients who had been randomized to 1 of the 5 groups in the GAIT continued to receive glucosamine 500 mg 3 times daily, CS 400 mg 3 times daily, the combination of glucosamine and CS, celecoxib 200 mg daily, or placebo over 24 months. The minimum medial tibiofemoral joint space width was measured at baseline, 12 months, and 24 months. The primary outcome measure was the mean change in joint space width from baseline. The mean joint space width loss at 2 years in knees with osteoarthritis in the placebo group, adjusted for design and clinical factors, was 0.166 mm. No statistically significant difference in mean joint space width loss was observed in any treatment group compared with the placebo group. Treatment effects on K/L grade 2 knees, but not on K/L grade 3 knees, showed a trend toward improvement relative to the placebo group. The power of the study was diminished by the limited sample size, variance of joint space width measurement, and a smaller than expected loss in joint space width. At 2 years, no treatment achieved a predefined threshold of clinically important difference in joint space width loss as compared with placebo. However, knees with K/L grade 2 radiographic osteoarthritis appeared to have the greatest potential for modification by these treatments.




Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate as therapeutic agents for knee and hip osteoarthritis.
Drugs Aging. 2007;24(7):573-80. WHO Collaborating Center for Public Health Aspect of Osteoarticular Disorders, University of Liege, Liege, Belgium.
This review evaluates published studies of the effect of glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate preparations on the progression of knee or hip osteoarthritis. Despite multiple double-blind, controlled clinical trials of the use of glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate in osteoarthritis, controversy regarding the efficacy of these agents with respect to symptomatic improvement remains. Several potential confounders, including placebo response, use of prescription medicines versus over-the-counter pills or food supplements, or use of glucosamine sulfate versus glucosamine hydrochloride, may have relevance when attempting to interpret the seemingly contradictory results of different clinical trials. On the basis of the results of recent trials and meta-analyses, we can conclude that glucosamine sulfate (but not glucosamine hydrochloride) and chondroitin sulfate have small-to-moderate symptomatic efficacy in osteoarthritis, although this is still debated.




Glucosamine sulfate in the treatment of knee osteoarthritis symptoms: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study using acetaminophen as a side comparator.
Arthritis Rheum. 2007 Feb;56(2):555-67. Rheumatology Department, Fundación Jiménez Díaz-Capio, Madrid, Spain.
To assess the effects of the prescription formulation of glucosamine sulfate (1,500 mg administered once daily) on the symptoms of knee osteoarthritis during a 6-month treatment course. Three hundred eighteen patients were enrolled in this randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind trial in which acetaminophen, the currently preferred medication for symptomatic treatment of osteoarthritis, was used as a side comparator. Patients were randomly assigned to receive oral glucosamine sulfate 1,500 mg once daily, acetaminophen 3 gm/day, or placebo. There were more responders to glucosamine sulfate (39%) and acetaminophen (33%) than to placebo (21%). Safety was good, and was comparable among groups. The findings of this study indicate that glucosamine sulfate at the oral once-daily dosage of 1,500 mg is more effective than placebo and more or as effective than acetaminophen in treating knee osteoarthritis symptoms.




Glucosamine sulfate reduces osteoarthritis progression in postmenopausal women with knee osteoarthritis: evidence from two 3-year studies.
Menopause. 2004 Mar-Apr;11(2):138-43. Bruyere O. WHO Collaborating Center for Public Health Aspect of Osteoarticular Disorders, Liege, Belgium.
To investigate the effect of glucosamine sulfate on long-term symptoms and structure progression in postmenopausal women with knee osteoarthritis. This study consisted of a preplanned combination of two three-year, randomized, placebo-controlled, prospective, independent studies evaluating the effect of glucosamine sulfate on symptoms and structure modification in osteoarthritis and post-hoc analysis of the results obtained in postmenopausal women with knee osteoarthritis. Minimal joint space width was assessed at baseline and after 3 years from standing anteroposterior knee radiographs. Of 414 participants randomized in the two studies, 319 were postmenopausal women. At baseline, glucosamine sulfate and placebo groups were comparable for demographic and disease characteristics, both in the general population and in the postmenopausal women subset. After 3 years, postmenopausal participants in the glucosamine sulfate group showed no joint space narrowing, whereas participants in the placebo group experienced a narrowing of -0.33 mm. Percent changes after 3 years in the WOMAC index showed an improvement in the glucosamine sulfate group and a trend for worsening in the placebo group. This analysis, focusing on a large cohort of postmenopausal women, demonstrated for the first time that a pharmacological intervention with glucosamine for osteoarthritis has a disease-modifying effect in this particular population, the most frequently affected by knee osteoarthritis.





The effect of glucosamine supplementation on people experiencing regular knee pain.
Braham R. University of Western Australia, Crawley, Western Australia 6009. Br J Sports Med. 2003 Feb;37(1):45-9; discussion 49.
The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of oral glucosamine supplements on the functional ability and degree of pain felt by individuals who had regular knee pain, most likely due to previous articular cartilage damage, and possibly osteoarthritis. Subjects were randomly supplemented with either glucosamine or placebo (P) (lactose) for 12 weeks at a dose of 2,000 mg per day. The clinical and functional test scores improved with time but there were no significant differences between the two groups. The questionnaire results also recorded a significant main effect for time, but the glucosamine group was found to have significantly better quality of life scores. On self report evaluations of changes across the 12 week supplementation period, 88% of the glucosamine group reported some degree of improvement in their knee pain versus only 17% in the placebo group. These results suggest that glucosamine supplements can provide some degree of pain relief and improved function in persons who experience regular knee pain, which may be caused by prior cartilage injury and/or osteoarthritis. The trends in the results also suggest that, at a dosage of 2,000 mg per day, the majority of improvements are present after eight weeks.

Panowie nie zbaczajmy z tematu mowa jest w topicu o glutaminie nie o glukozaminie. Co do wielkich sceptyków tego produktu ciekawi mnie ich opinia na temat dlaczego czołówka sportowców choćby będących na sfd KUPUJE glutamine i stosuje ją w swojej suplementacji jak np Justine. Myśle że jeżeli nie czułby działania tego suplementu z własnych pieniędzy by go nie kupywał

"Szanowny Kolego... Nawet najbardziej skrajne opinie na temat najbardziej kontrowersyjnych suplementów nie upoważniają do natarczywości i nieuprzejmego tonu."

szanowny kolego...jak na razie to nie padła z mojej strony żadna opinia na temat glutaminy,a co tu mówić o skrajnej opinii gdzie kolego doszukałeś sie z mojej strony natarczywości i nieuprzejmego tonu?

co do "nieuprzejmego tonu" to można rozważać tylko tą twoja wypowiedź.

"Batman...!"

Wniosek z pierwszego badania:

Conclusions Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate alone or in combination did not reduce pain effectively in the overall group of patients with osteoarthritis of the knee.

Overall, glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate were not significantly better than placebo in reducing knee pain by 20 percent

Co do drugiego badania - nie doczytalem by bylo randomizowane, przeprowadzone metoda podwojnej slepej próby, więc nie ma specjalnie z czym porównywac.

Trzecie przytoczone badanie, wniosek:

No significant difference was found between the glucosamine, and placebo group in mean pain intensity scores for resting and walking, and degree of knee swelling. There was no significant difference between passive knee flexibilityt. After 28 days of treatment the patients from the glucosamine group demonstrated significant improvement in knee flexion and extension as compared with the placebo group.

Kolejne badanie - wspominalem o nim w tym temacie - faktycznie przemawia w pewnym stopniu za glukozaminą/chondorityną. Badanie co prawda trwało az dwa lata. Ale zanotowano pewien potencjał (ale jesli dobrze rozumiem niespelniający poczatkowo zalozonego minimum, szpara w stawie kolanowym miala sie zmniejszyc o minomum 2mm, zmniejszyla się o 0.166 mm) tych substancji w długotrwałym leczeniu (w porównaniu do placebo).

Wiec jak sie tak przyjrzeć tym badaniom - to nie wygladają aż tak kolorowo, częsc z nich w zasadzie dowodzi braku skutecznosci, a częsc jedynie - minimalny potencjał. Ale takie które wykazuja pewną aktywnosc glukozaminy - jednak są, co zostalo pozyżej udowodnione.


chucknoris - w sumie odpowiedzi moze byc wiele, wystarczy uruchomic najpierw wyobraznie, pozniej logikę. Swego czasu równiez zastanawialem sie dlaczego zawodowi kulturysci nie łaczą kreatyny z kofeiną - i krytykuja zdecydowanie to połaczenie, czy też - eiliminuja tluszcz pokarmowy do minimum - wskazując na niego jako na głownego winowajce otluszczonych sylwetek. Ludzkie przekonania, czy też - komfort psychiczny (a moze jednak glutamina dziala, przeciez inni biorą), u wszystkich ludzi - niezaleznie od prestiżu ich osiagnięc sportowych - moga byc podobne. W wypadku osob które wiązą swoja przyszlosc ze sportem - mobilizacja może być jeszcze wieksza, tym bardziej chca miec pewnośc ze niczego nie zaniedbali. Innymi slowy - gdybym konkurowal z innymi w jakiejs dyscyplinie, i bylby cień szansy iz glutamina pomoze mi przeskoczyc pewien pułap - sam właczylbym ja do suplementacji.

Zmieniony przez - faftaq w dniu 2009-10-05 15:09:12

Od kwestii przyjetej "retoryki" pomiędzy Panami Ambroziakiem i batmanatma, pozwolę sobie się odciąć Cieszyłbym sie jedy6nie bardziej gdyby rozmowa traktowala o konkretach - a nie o samej "retoryce" czy tonie wypowiedzi.

pozdrawiam

MolderDist,mówienie na temat jest przejawem braku szacunku?nic nie stosownego w moich wypowiedziach nie ma.
a moze ty myślisz że niektórzy tu,to "święte krowy" do których zwracać sie można nie inaczej jak tylko, "proszę","błagam"i"dziękuje mistrzu"