*** Hardkorowy - NIEHORMONALNY - zestaw suplementów!

prawie jak SAA

Zmieniony przez - testek w dniu 2010-08-23 21:45:32

eee tam - lepiej

Jesli chodzi o chryzyne, to pamietam ze miala wlasciwosci IA in vitro, a in viwo juz nie, ale to byly badania na szczurach. Jak te na ludziach im przeczą - to zmieniam zdanie
Codo praktycznej skutecznosci wymienionych tutaj to:

Effects of anabolic precursors on serum testosterone concentrations and adaptations to resistance training in young men.

Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Reifenrath TA, Uhl NL, Parsons KA, Sharp RL, King DS.

Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50011, USA.
Abstract

The effects of androgen precursors, combined with herbal extracts designed to enhance testosterone formation and reduce conversion of androgens to estrogens was studied in young men. Subjects performed 3 days of resistance training per week for 8 weeks. Each day during Weeks 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8, subjects consumed either placebo (PL; n = 10) or a supplement (ANDRO-6; n = 10), which contained daily doses of 300 mg androstenedione, 150 mg DHEA, 750 mg Tribulus terrestris, 625 mg Chrysin, 300 mg Indole-3-carbinol, and 540 mg Saw palmetto. Serum androstenedione concentrations were higher in ANDRO-6 after 2, 5, and 8 weeks (p <.05), while serum concentrations of free and total testosterone were unchanged in both groups. Serum estradiol was elevated at Weeks 2, 5, and 8 in ANDRO-6 (p <.05), and serum estrone was elevated at Weeks 5 and 8 (p <.05). Muscle strength increased (p <.05) similarly from Weeks 0 to 4, and again from Weeks 4 to 8 in both treatment groups. The acute effect of one third of the daily dose of ANDRO-6 and PL was studied in 10 men (23 +/- 4 years). Serum androstenedione concentrations were elevated (p <.05) in ANDRO-6 from 150 to 360 min after ingestion, while serum free or total testosterone concentrations were unchanged. These data provide evidence that the addition of these herbal extracts to androstenedione does not result in increased serum testosterone concentrations, reduce the estrogenic effect of androstenedione, and does not augment the adaptations to resistance training.

nie jedna osoba juz chwalila chryzyne z tego co pamietam byl to antyestrogen estro block wiec powtarzanie w kolko tego badania na szczurach malo kogo interesuje tym bardziej po tym co solaros wkleil

zauważ iż przyznałem że nie znałem zamieszczonych przez Solarosa publikacji, i że zmieniają one postać rzeczy - w tym moje postrzeganie. Poza tym - niczego w kółko nie powtarzam, a abstrakt ktory wkleilem powyzej nie jest "na szczurach".

Myślę również iż jeśli masz coś ciekawego do dodania pownieneś wypowiadać się w swoim jedynie imieniu, nic mi o tym nie wiadomo byś był bowiem głosem narodu

Zmieniony przez - faftaq w dniu 2010-08-24 00:11:21

Bajka. Good job Solar. Na bank sproobuję w wersji full z beta alaniną..

jezeli chodzi o chryzyne - to chyba brak jednoglosnych (?) wynikow badan na czlowieku - jesli juz byly to wyniki nie do konca potwierdzaly teorie:
Because of this, Chrysin has been heavily promoted as an inhibitor of aromatase, and widely sold in the supplement industry despite the fact that no in vivo (in a living organism) studies have been able to substantially prove its effectiveness in human subjects

Pomimo tego - ze nie ma jednoznacznych wynikow testow przeprowadzonych na zywych organizmach ktore by do konca potweirdzaly skutecznosc chryzyny jako boostera testosteronu - ma na pewno szereg innych wlasciwosci jezeli chodzi o mezszczyzn:
various studies have found Chrysin to significantly improve overall sexual function and increase sperm count.

Niestety jezeli chodzi o ludzi - w gre wchodza dwa głowne aspekty dlaczegi chryzyna moze nie dzialac tak skutecznie jak pokzauja wyniki badan:
-mala biodostepnosc
-slaba przyswajalnosc (w formie oralnej)


Wyniki które wkleilem wczesniej - NIE IN VIVO! - pokazuja ze chryzyna jest jednym z lepszych flawonów - jesli nie top - jesli chodzi o dzialanie enty estrogenowe.
Summary: 28 randomly selected flavonoids were screened for inhibitory effects against aromatase. Over half of the flavonoids significantly inhibited aromatase activity. Chrysin, along with two other flavonoids, was found to be the most potent.

&

Summary: This study looked at the inhibition profiles of 4 flavones (including Chrysin), 2 isoflavones, 1 flavanone, and 1 naphthoflavone. Along with computer modeling, binding characteristics to inhibit human aromatase was obtained. The study concluded that the flavones (Chrysin) were significantly more potent than the other groups.

Ale gdy wchodza do 'gry' ludzie - sprawa wyglada inaczej:

Summary: The study was designed to verify if daily treatment with propolis and honey naturally containing chrysin would modify urinary concentrations of testosterone in male subjects for 21 days. The researchers theorized that the aromatase inhibiting properties of Chrysin should block the conversion of "androgens into estrogens with a consequent increase of testosterone, eventually measurable in urine samples". However, the obtained data showed no changes in the testosterone levels in the male subjects after 7, 14, and 21 days of treatment compared with baseline values. They could only conclude that the 21 day treatment using propolis and honey containing chrysin had no effects on the testosterone in the male subjects

Tutaj jest jedno male ale - byl podawany propolis i miód(naturalnie bogate w chryzyne) - nie bylo suplementacja chryzyna bezposrednio!


Tu przyczyna dlaczego tak moze byc:
Summary: The study examined the intestinal transport of chrysin to determine its oral bioavailability. From their observations, the researchers concluded that although chrysin has favorable membrane transport properties, its intestinal absorption is limited by surprisingly efficient glucuroidation (process where the human body excretes a large variety of molecules).


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jesli mowa o DHEA,andro & androstenediol




androstenedione - androstenedion (prekursor testosteronu/estrogenu)

On average, Androstenedione has a conversion rate of about 5.6%, which means of the amount you take in, about 5.6% is converted into testosterone!

Tlumaczyc chyba nie trzeba.


Andro Research 1:

In a study investigating the effects of Androstenedione on 42 healthy males between 20 to 40 years of age, subjects received either 100mg per day (group 1), or 300mg per day (group 2), or placebo for 7 days (group 3). The results found group 2 (300mg) had significantly higher levels of testosterone than both group 1 and 3. However, they also found that estrogen levels were also significantly higher in group 2, and also in group 1, who did not show significant increase in testosterone.

Andro Study 2:

In a study involving 20 young males, 8 weeks of resistance training and 300mg of andro was administered (group 1), and a placebo given to the control group (group 3). There were also 10 males who were given 100mg of andro per day (group 2). Results showed that andro effects on testosterone were minimal, but estrogen levels were increased by more than 50%.

Also, by the end of 8 weeks, the researchers found no difference in muscle and strength gains between the placebo group and the andro groups. They also found in the andro groups, HDL cholesterol (the good kind) declined, while the control group's did not.

Andro Research 3:

In another study published by American Medical Association Journal, they found similar results as the 2 studies above. They found that supplementing androstenedione had very little effects on testosterone levels, and also HDL cholesterol decreased while LDL (bad) cholesterol levels increased by 12%. They also found estrogen levels increased in the participants who took androstenedione.

Androstenedione has been shown to increase serum testosterone levels over an eight-hour period in men when taken as a single oral dose of 300 mg per day, but a 100 mg dose had no significant effect on serum testosterone. However, serum levels of estradiol increased following both the 100 mg and 300 mg doses. The study also reported that the serum level of estrogens and testosterone produced varied widely between individuals.[4] A 2006 review paper summarized several studies which examined the effect of androstenedione on strength training. At dosages of 50 mg or 100 mg per day, andro had no effect on muscle strength or size, or on body fat levels. One study utilized a daily dosage of 300 mg of androstenedione combined with several other supplements, and also found no increase in strength when compared to a control group that did not take the supplements. The review authors speculate that sufficiently high doses may indeed lead to increased muscle size and strength


Nie bede wszystkiego kopiowal i wklejal - tu ciekawe badania:
Chronic ingestion of 100 mg androstenediol t.i.d. produces modest increases in serum free testosterone, and more pronounced increases in serum estradiol, androstenedione and DHT concentrations and while reducing serum HDL-C concentrations in 30 to 58 year old men. The changes in the serum hormonal milieu were observed in spite of the inclusion of saw palmetto, LA, indole-3-carbinol, chrysin and Tribulus terrestris suggesting that, in the doses given, these herbal extracts do not prevent the aromatization or 5 reduction of ingested androstenediol. Although the health related effects of long-term androstenediol ingestion are unknown, the observed changes in the serum hormone profile suggest that caution is advisable in its use as a nutritional supplement.
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/20/5/520

This study shows that oral androstenedione administration increases serum testosterone, androstenedione, estradiol, and estrone concentrations in healthy men. Few studies have examined the effects of oral androstenedione administration on testosterone production in humans. A 100-mg dose of androstenedione increased testosterone concentrations in 2 women.5 In a recent study, in which androstenedione was administered either as a single 100-mg dose or as 100 mg 3 times daily to healthy men, testosterone concentrations did not increase, although estrogen levels did.6 Our data confirm that individual 100-mg doses of androstenedione are insufficient to increase testosterone concentrations in healthy men. However, our data also demonstrate that a higher dose does increase serum testosterone concentrations.

We conclude that orally administered androstenedione increases serum testosterone and estrogen levels in healthy men, particularly at higher doses. These increases could lead to anabolic or untoward effects in susceptible populations. Long-term studies of androstenedione use are needed.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/283/6/779


Jesli chopdzi o DHEA - Dehydroepiandrosterone



When investigating the acute hormonal response to DHEA ingestion (50 mg) in young men (age = 19 to 29 years), researchers observed significant elevations in serum A'dione, while no changes in testosterone occurred.Similar observations have been made after A'dione ingestion.These elevations occurred after ingestion of 100,200,and 300 mg.However, only 200-mg and 300-mg doses have been shown to significantly increase serum testosterone levels.Testosterone levels in a group of young men ingesting 300 mg were significantly greater than those ingesting 100 mg and those in a control group, while no differences were observed between the 100-mg and control groups. It was suggested that a significant portion of the ingested A'dione is reduced and conjugated by the liver before it can reach peripheral testosterone-converting tissues. Thus, only higher dosages were able to achieve increases in testosterone. Similarly, a significant increase in testosterone was observed in young men after a 200-mg dose

It must be noted that acute increases in estradiol have also been observed in young men after A'dione ingestion. Following higher-dose A'dione ingestion (300 mg), a 128% increase in estradiol was observed, while only a 34% increase in testosterone was observed

Rasmussen et al showed that 100 mg of A'dione per day for 5 days failed to increase testosterone levels. However, plasma A'dione did increase more than 3-fold. Similarly, 300 mg/d (100-mg doses) for 8 weeks failed to increase testosterone levels, while A'dione levels were elevated by 100%. Even a 300-mg daily dose, which did provide an acute increase in testosterone, failed to increase baseline testosterone after 7 days of ingestion.

Lean Body Mass and Strength - obszerne wnioski:




anthropometric changes in young men (age = 20 to 25 years) after supplementation, as a significant decrease in body fat was observed after DHEA ingestion (1600 mg/d) for 28 days. Because overall body mass remained constant while fat mass decreased, the authors concluded that supplementation resulted in increased lean body mass. However, strength measures were not performed, and diet and physical activity were not controlled or recorded. Thus, the authors' conclusions must be questioned.

Longer supplementation and training protocols have also failed to support ergogenic claims. Twelve weeks of DHEA and A'dione supplementation combined with resistance training were ineffective in increasing lean body mass and strength in an older group of men (age range = 40 to 60 years).Similarly, supplementation with A'diol (200 mg/d) for 12 weeks also failed to produce changes in muscle strength and lean body mass


choc na bb.com znalezione co innego:
Studies conducted on andro indicate that when taken orally, androstenedione produces significantly more testosterone than either a placebo or DHEA. In fact, East German athletes have used andro to improve their athletic performance in the Olympics since 1980. According to German records, their athletes experienced raises in testosterone levels as significant as 140% to 183% of normal with 50 mg of andro and incredibly 211% to 237% of normal with 100 mg of andro! These testosterone boosts have lead many athletes to improving their performance and lean muscle mass. This has lead many to believe that it may even work well as a libido booster.

ale chyba ciezko uwierzyc zeby na samych 50mg andro jechali



Jezeli chodzi andro (i z reszta nie tylko) to WYJ.EBKI:
In an analysis of 9 brands of A'dione, 6 contained less than 90% of the amount stated on the label


dziekuje dobranoc



....moze raczej dziendobry



Zmieniony przez - solaros w dniu 2010-08-24 05:42:52

Ja jako ciekawostkę dodam, iż kwestia równowagi w organizmie jest niezmiernie istotna, również w kontekscie estrogenów.

Estrogeny u mężczyzn pełnią szereg kluczowych funkcji dla funkcjonowania ustroju. Zbyt niski ich poziom prowadzić może między innymi do:

- deminerealizacji kości, osłabienia ich struktury
- pogorszeniu funkcjonowania narządów wewnętrznych, w tym wątroby, a nawet stłuszczenia wątroby,
- osłabieniu popędu płciowego, utrata płodności (dzieje się to pomimo wysokiego poziomu wolnego testosteronu)
- uszkodzenia śródbłonka naczyń, w tym naczyń mózgowych
- zwiekszone ryzyko powstania tzw zespołu metabolicznego.



Of mice and men: the many guises of estrogens.
Simpson ER, Jones ME.

Prince Henry's Institute of Medical Research, P.O. Box 5152, VIC 3168 Clayton, Australia. [email protected]
Abstract
Models of estrogen insufficiency have revealed new and unexpected roles for estrogens in males as well as females. These models include natural mutations in the aromatase gene in humans, as well as mouse knock-outs of aromatase and the estrogen receptors, and one man with a mutation in the ERa gene. These mutations, both natural and experimental, have revealed that estrogen deficiency results in a spectrum of symptoms. These include loss of fertility and libido in both males and females; loss of bone in both males and females; a cardiovascular and cerebrovascular phenotype; development of a metabolic syndrome in both males and females, with truncal adiposity and male-specific hepatic steatosis. Most of these symptoms can be reversed or attenuated by estradiol therapy. Thus estrogen is involved in the maintenance of general physiological homeostasis in both sexes.

I dość ciekawy:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC34093/

Nie mówię iż spozywając chryzynę, resveratrol i I-3-C możemy doprowadzić do takiego stanu, ale biorąc pod uwagę np:

https://www.sfd.pl/Ciekawy_wynik_badań-t459089.html

możnasię zastanowić

novedex to nie tylko antyestrogen i atd o czym i autor tematu zapomnial i jak widze kilka osob
na badaniu z powyzszego linku nie widze inf. na temat poziomu estrogenu, to ze podniosl sie mocno poziom T nie oznacza juz ze w takim samym stopniu lub podobnym spadl estrogen

powyzsze informacje - moim zdaniem - to tylko bodziec do refleksji. Ja nie czuję się zbyt swobodnie w weryfikowanie szlaków IA-test-estro.