Ted Wong mówi o Jeet Kune Do- video

Dla fanów Bruce'a Lee link do ciekawej stronki
http://angelus-silesius.pl/lee.html 

Look guys I will write briefly in English what you have written ans I have to go to work ;) and after work I need to do my workout


Jetlit said that I wrote that Bruce substitited Wing Chun dummy with heavy bag and discarded trapping and that it would fit to the simplicity principle.

Then Buczah wrote that he understood that Bruce created JKD for himself, that JKD isn't training whatever etc. And that becouse Bruce trained on Wing Chun dummy he had developed his forearms by that and that becouse Bruce left the wooden dummy and substituted it with heavybag it doesn't mean that wooden dummy isn't worth of attention as Bruce did that becouse it was a proccess of his own development.

( I will translate your posts after I got back from work, hope you will understand it).


According to Ted Wong, and some facts as well as evidences like Bruce Lee's letter to his friend William Cheung in 1969, shows that Bruce left Wing Chun dummy and discarded trapping becouse he felt that heavy bag is just better than wooden dummy and he discarded trapping as he found that there are better ways to solve the problem in the close range, better ways - does not mean using techniques from other styles in that range but simply more economical expression of movement that fit better to Jeet Kune Do principles.

Bruce had developed his forearms mainly becouse he had a special training routines connected with that and he had special equipmnet to do that. By the way Stefan has got very similar device to train forearms in his private training quarters.

As we consider development it depends on point of view. Is it development that you "concepts guys" percieve by adding new and new techniques or maybe development by making perfect and working on all of the details and getting the "essence" from it till acheiving the "no form" state.


Going little bit further Buczah you said that JKD is not training "whatever" but in the other post here on forum you wrote that BJJ is a part of JKD.... Well, all I can ask you for is could you please give some evidences, facts, maybe parts of Bruce Lee's notes that are about JKD where I could find refference to BJJ and that it's a part of JKD? Becouse in my opinnion in JKD there is no BJJ.

Taking a step further, and talking about trapping... Here on forum I read the post written by W.A, in this post he says that the most important thing in trapping is to entrap. Again please take at note that I am not attacking him as a person or anything like that I am just taking his statement as he is one of the representatives of JKD concepts in Poland.

In my opinion trapping is about hitting. I had wittnesed Ted Wong performing trapping and I was honoured to expierence that on me. Also I was fortunate to expierience Stefan Nikander performing trapping.... And to me trapping is like Stefan said that he was told by Ted Wong... that trapping should be "a single shot action." "The Bruce Lee idea was to hit the target before trapping".

It's not about tieing up the opponnets hands it's also not about hand plays like hubud. It's about hitting the target first.


Michal




Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-22 13:02:54

Odpowiem krótko . Bruce nie brał udziału w turniejach. BJJ/Submission bardzo przydaje się na zawodach, bez tego ani rusz. Ludzie trenujący JKD, którzy chcą brać udział w zawodach sportowych muszą umieć się poruszać w parterze, bez tej umiejętności zostaliby po prostu ośmieszeni. Do walki na ulicy nikt nie będzie wykorzystywał zaawansowanych technik BJJ, zwykle jest powalenie i od razu wykończenie jak najszybciej się da. Z tego co się orientuję na zawodach MMA nie mozna uderzać kolanami w głowę, "stąpać" na staw skokowy czy uderzać w inne stawy, stosować tzw. przydeptywanie/cios pieta z góry,kopniecie stopujące itp. techniki, które mogą się skończyć dotkliwą kontuzją zawodników. Michale, w JKD jest również parter, a jak wszyscy doskonale wiedzą,najlepsze techniki parterowe ma BJJ.



Zmieniony przez - buczah w dniu 2008-12-22 22:07:40

So what you are trying to say is that you have ADDED and MIXED techniques from BJJ and groundfighting with JKD right?

Do you remember Nucleus point about what they are a definition that was ironically brought here by Merkavoth,- the another JKD concepts representatives? Do you remember my answer for it the Nucleus definition of JKD?


If you add and mix why do you hide behind JKD and Bruce Lee name?

Bruce didn't train BJJ and those grappling patterns it was invention of Harstell.

In conclusion if Bruce Lee didn't train it I ask again on what condition do you call it JKD?

And I UNDERLINE AGAIN- Jeet Kune Do IS NOT MIXED MARTIAL ARTS and IT IS NOT AN ORIGIN FOR MIXED MARTIAL ARTS.

THE ORIGIN FOR MIXED MARTIAL ARTS MAY BE JEET KUNE DO CONCEPTS THE INVENTION OF DAN INOSANTO.

BRUCE LEE'S JEET KUNE DO IS UNIQUE MARTIAL ART WITH ITS OWN STRUCTURE.

If you want to doubt that, please enjoy yourself and watch those clips of Inosanto and Vunak that are compared with Ted Wong, Stefan Nikander and Bruce Lee.


Any comments on that? Which one point of view resemble more what Bruce Lee was doing and which looks completely different?





Michal

P.S

Here is something that I am giving you- concepts guys to consider. Many of you say that I named what you are doing Jeet Kune Do concepts... well please read this

"There are two schools of thought in JKD practice today ... Jun Fan/JKD practitioners, and the JKD Concepts practitioners. Jun Fan/JKD practitioners concentrate on Bruce Lee's original teachings, training and fighting methods, while the JKD Concepts practitioners use Bruce Lee's ideas and theories and explore and add techniques from many other martial arts to their training"

This is just a part of an article that I found on one of the JKD informative webpage.

And now answer me JKD concepts practicioners, do you still consider that I named you "concepts" approach?

Now people who visit this forum and will look at this discussion they will see both points of view given on a plate and compared.
This will definetely help them to make a choose and decide which way they want to follow.

Inosanto Concepts approach lineage which is characterized by that JKD Concepts practitioners use Bruce Lee's ideas and theories and explore and add techniques from many other martial arts to their training" The representatives in Poland of this approach: W.A, Kenjiro, Robert Karpinski.

Or Ted Wong JKD approach which is characterized by that Jun Fan/JKD practitioners concentrate on Bruce Lee's original teachings, training and fighting methods. The representative of this approach in Poland: Michal c*****.






Michal c*****

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-23 10:49:50

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-23 17:46:25

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-23 17:48:15

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-23 18:14:17

Michal, if bruce wasn't intrested in bjj or other ground fighting styles, why Stefan teaches ground fighting with elements of BJJ/Submission? Isn't it adding new techniques to ORIGINAL JKD ?? Isn't it yet concepts and it's still original? Why?
You posted here a lot of clips with Bruce saying "look what Bruce trained, it differs from other clips of Inosanto, Vunak etc." If You and Stefan teach Bruce's JKD show me please Bruce training ground fighting.

If you pay attention to what Stefan had wrote about that video where he shows the groundfighting you would know what this video is about.

First of all Stefan speaks there in Swedish and what he is saying and showing and exemplefying that those grappiling techniques are not Jeet Kune Do.

And seconadary I have a great example of JKD groundfighting:D It happend during my sparring session when at Stefan " JKD dream gym". I will put it as soon as I will get new progamme to make make video clips. Or maybe even sooner







Michal

show me please Bruce training ground fighting.

proszę, 1:50 - 1:58





(joke)

pozdro

I get that joke. But take at note that JKD isn't what Bruce had shown in his movies, if you are thought that in your JKD school than all I can say is just that it's not even worth of comment.

Anyaway, I will put that groundfighting but... But I must ask you then to give me something in return. What will you then show or put here on forum?

Would you like to comment on that video clips which I had posted? Do you still claim that Inosanto isn't teaching JKD as mix of many different martial arts?


But if you don't want to put anything in return don't expect me to answer for your question.

Of course you concepts guys can't expect us ( me and Stefan) to give you everything on a plate . As we are answering for your questions but you aren't answering ours so willingly.

That's why if you are intersted in my JKD point of view be patient, very soon I will give more details about JKD trainings in Brodnica



Here is a hint for you: Read the Tao of JKD once more and then You will find how Bruce percieved grappling... And I am not talking about those notes on Jiu-Jitsu etc. But those notes which reffers to JKD.

Michal

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-23 19:40:06

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-23 19:50:14

"why Stefan teaches ground fighting with elements of BJJ/Submission? "

SoulReaver please don't say that as you don't have a clue about
what Stefan is teaching. All I can say is that that Stefan always says what is JKD and what is someother art and he is not teaching it as an incorporated stuff under JKD name, that means that elements of BJJ/Submission aren't thought as JKD.

Once again I won't give you everything on a plate




And by the way, about teaching grappling and submission like I said it's nothing wrong to do that but why hide behind JKD name?

I think that Stefan had just SHOWN not actually thought those grappling techniques in case to exemplify some stuff and to teach something very worthful about what is JKD and about JKD.


Of course I answered on your question very briefly. I know that Stefan answer will be more precise so you will then, I hope, get what I meant.


Michal

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-23 20:08:11

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-23 20:10:26

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-23 20:20:08

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-23 20:28:46

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-23 20:29:55

"why Stefan teaches ground fighting with elements of BJJ/Submission? "

At least you have understood ione thing

"Stefan teaches ground fighting...."

But you are only explaining youir own point of view when you are writing

"..... with elements of BJJ/Submission? "

This is to me the typical Concepts approach. To me there is nothing JKD about BJJ/Submission, it is simply MartialSport and has nothing to do with JKD and self Deense.

Well, I am a liitle bit wrong here, the only thing it has to do with self Defense according to me is what NOT TO Do in selfdefense.

But I am not closeminded, I know that knowing something about this MartialSport on the ground helps mi JKD approach in Ground FIGHTING.

Let me just point out that the difference is that Concepts people say that this "Training for what NOT TO DO" and the "Training for knowing wkhat grapplers CAN DO" is not JKD Grappling, it is simply Grappling. In Jun fan JKD there is only Groundfighting, and in my Self Defense there is no place for submission and GJJ.

/SteFan