Ted Wong mówi o Jeet Kune Do- video

Michał,dzięki za przetłumaczenie mojego postu. Dodam tylko jedno - nie róbcie z Bruce Lee człowieka, który nie umiał się wypowiadać lub mówił szyfrem, a klucz deszyfrujący przekazał jedynie Tedowi WongowiPrzesłanie Bruce'a dotyczące Jeet Kune Do jest dla mnie jasne jak słońce .

Zmieniony przez - buczah w dniu 2008-11-04 18:03:23

Buchah, Neither I nor Stefan did say that Bruce Lee was unable to speak clearly about JKD and he was encoding he true meaning and that the only person who knows that meaning is Ted Wong. As I wrote earlier you must to put Bruce Lee's words in apropriate context then you are able to understand it. Giving quates from Tao of JKD is like I said quite risky as we don't know if Bruce wanted to all of those notes to be published. As a matter of fact if you didn't read English version of Tao of JKD you rely on translation, I found by myself a lot of mistranslated quotes in Tao as well as Commentaries on martial way.

Furthermore, when you focus only on 2 quotes from Bruce then you aren't getting the whole picture of the idea. What is even more important to get the whole picture firstly you must consider what was Bruce idea. I mean by it when reading Bruce notes trying to get inside of Bruce Lee's head. After that you may build your own opinnion, knowing the original context first.

Anyway I postes here letter from Bruce Lee to Jerry Poteet, I also posted part of a letter where Bruce says that "it" is based on Wing Chun, boxing and fencing. Then I post quote of Bruce Lee from the book "Bruce Lee the artist of Life". There you have clear message where Bruce speaks about JKD from technical point of view.

The quote that you posted(Buczah) is the philosophical approach of JKD considered by Bruce. As a matter of fact we don't know ´like I said before if Bruce would like to publish this quote.


I write in English so Stefan can understand what about the discussion is. Please try to write in English, I know that this is a polish forum but please be open minded to understand that maybe someone who deosn't speak Polish, but has a lot of knowlesge would like to speak out.

I can assure you that Stefan will go in this subject, in comparison to him what I know about JKD is just a tip of an iceberg.

Sincerely,

Pozdrawiam,


Michal c*****

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-05 06:41:12

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-05 06:41:51

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-05 07:29:17

What I said was that Ted Wong JKD is the closest to the Bruce Lee's. As Stefan mentined this isn't about what is better but to tell you the difference.

This is the attitude I meet in Romania, Norway, Sweden and everywhere people like Michail contact me for "help". They are harrassed på The Concepts approach constantly being told how wrong and narrowminded the Jun fun approach. "Please you both stop telling that Bruce was unable to speak clearly about JKD", Concepts people seem ro do anything to avoid an open discussion with Jun Fan. I have in Scandinavia invited Concepts instructors to have seminars together. Who do you think don´t want to cooperate, more importantly, why don´t theyvwant to cooperate.

Shouldn´t eveyone intrested in Bruce Lee be glad that another point of view is being given. Concepts people constantly stress how open minded they are, how they constantly search for new styles and information. I don´t see this attitude when it comes to jun fan/Ted Wong JK**. Do you? How open to jun Fan are people on this Forum?

As for myself, I gave Concepts 4 years, how many of all the experts about Jun fan in the Concepts camp has been to a Ted wong seminar, Jerry Poteet seminar or any instructor who teaches the Jun fan approach. How many years have they given to Jun fan approach?

No, someone needs to be more openminded. What we in Jun Fan are doing is simply wanting a 50/50 look on JKD. We are not in this discussion to give a "new2 ultimate truth in JKD, just share our pointof view. For 0ver 30 years the view on JKD has been onesided, and it shows on forums, in books, videtapes. The kali-Silat-Muay Thai- Whatever you want-JKD Blend has become the ultimate truth in JKD.

Now when pople like Ted Wong, after the request of Bruce lee´s widow Lind Lee, has started to share the ither "side of the coin" I feel that someone is not being open minded., someone is being afraid to loose their 100% dominans, someone does not want an discussion that goes against 30 years of JKD tradition.

I want to stress. Ted, and I as his 1 of 3 European instructors, do not want to change anyone to anything, we are not saying that jun Fan/Ted Wong is better than Concepts. We are simply asking people to be openminded and consider that there are alternative ways of training in Bruce Lee´s JKD. I want the next generation of JKD/Bruce Lee enthusiast to see that there are 2 ways to go in JKD, not 1 that it has been for 30 years.

Buczah, you said you are clear what JKD is to you. For the sake of the discussion and your credability it would probably be good to give "your side of the coin" so that everybody intrested in JKD in Poland get a clear picture what we are talking about.

As I told you I follow the 6000 pages Bruce lee wrote down. To give people the chance to see the similarities and differences in what we are discussing, lets discuss this, not simply say that he wrote 6000 pages, not simply quote him. Lets explain how we practically and technically adapt these quotes to our JKD we represent.

Do you want me to pick a quote and you give me your point of view, as you said you are quite clear what he ment", or do you want to choose your favourite quote that describes JKD, explain it from your point of view,how you apply the quote in your training and I will tell my, how we apply it in Jun Fan/Ted Wong JKD.

Please let not "hide" behind quotes like "JKD is just a name..." that we don´t want any Fuss about JKD. We all have likes and dislikes, we all have oppinions. Let´s just give are oppinions, experience, whatever you want to call it, and just share the knowledge with each other. Let´s not ask each other to stop telling, stop talking about each others oppinions. Show me that you want to discuss with me, travel the JKD road with me Show the ttrue spirit of JKD!

So how about it. Do you have a good quote to discuss openly and withot "Fuss"

SteFan

One more thing, Buczah you said that you train JKD concepts and that in your school you also have a stance and punch or kick from this stance and get back to the stance after attack, right.

But there is one more thing....

As Stefan accordingly to Bruce Lee's words said that in JKD all attacks ( kicks and punches, in fact all movements) should begin and end in On guard stance. I did the same but in Polish in my earlier post

By the word "On guard stance" we didn't mean left lead boxing stance with just simply raised rear heel but the unique JKD On guard stance reffered by Bruce as small phasic bent knee position, and designed by him and based on laws of science.

Buczah, you said that JKD thought by Dan Inosanto is simple, fast and effiecient.

I will say that Jeet Kune Do which is being thought by Ted Wong is simple, direct and non classical.


/Michal

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-05 20:52:56

you guys are so right, it is important to see the difference from a JKD On Guard/Fighting Stance, and any other styles On Guard Fighting Stance. What I see today in Concepts is that I se3-4 Fighting Stances in different ranges of Motion, and they call "going from Stance to stance without a thought progress" as one Stance. To me there are still 4 stances.

If they would say that they have chosen a Kickboxing Stance and use this Stance i every range of Combat, I would say that they are Following Bruce Lee´s advice,but are still not doing JKD.

Doing JKD Bruce Lee desvribed what a JKD Stance should Look like, and there is more to it than raising your rear hel, correct Triangle positions, width,body positionening. tension in the correct palcement of upper and lower body, correct mental attitude. These are jsut a few a the JKD principles I spend time perfecting instead of perfecting 5 different Staces for each "what if". I would sum it up by saying that to me, Jun fan/Ted Wong approach" "less is more", we find more facts aboutr the little we have to perfect. Concepts to me is more the attiyude "more is better", quantity before quality". Sure, anything works, I am not saying that this approach is worse. Simply consider the Time Factor needed to attain perfection in both the Jun fan and Concepts apprioack. 50/50, I hope that peplre in Poland will come to realize that there are many ways to reach the top of the mountain. in JKD we have two main roads, Concepts and Jun fan approack.

PS. By the way, do you have any qoutes to discuss ?

Ovcourse, both positions JKD are different. Position, whose Dan teaches is not boxing position, it is visible with the naked eye on his instruction films. However, position differs from the positions "On guard" because that position created only to the atack with firmer side in front, modelled on the rules of the fencing. This is the ideal position to the fight in formulas semi-contact, but completely does not come true in fights in full contact, what we could observe on turnaments played in formulas K1 and MMA. In my opinion Dan`s position is more useful and more flexiblity during the fight, but that position still similar to "on guard" position.

JKD position, which I know except the "On guard position" is presented on this film:

http://video.google.pl/videoplay?docid=4421607231202337705&ei=MRcTScPGOo-o2wKi36Uu&q=inosanto

We know that JKD have two main roads, its clear for everyone. Most important is the possibility of the choice of own way.

Please for the leniency, but my Engish is still poor .

Zmieniony przez - buczah w dniu 2008-11-06 17:48:19

Nice to meet you Stefan, even via internet.
First, I would like to state, that i attend Martial Arts Academy of Robert Karpinski in Lodz. Robert is, in terms of approach to JKD, closely related to Dan Inosanto. Still, I find it really surprising, when I read about such things like crossing the legs, or combining on guard stances from various martial arts in our "Polish way".

I must say that I agree with many things you and Michal write about the essence of JKD. Nevertheless, it isn't true that Dan's way discards such things like Bruce's on-guard stance, or such. Robert came from LA a year ago, and until now everything he has taught me and my collegues correspond with your approach. I then think, that we really are not that far from one anothers. Maybe you just lay your sight on wrong schools from Poland. Maybe you just take those schools as general representants of our "national way", if such thing can exist
Maybe, and that one is to Michal, some of us stick to names too much when, if visited us personally, would realise that our approach isn't in any way less effective, or even really that different from theirs...

Im glad that you joined the disscusion, Stefan, because the problem was not in the dissonance in the way of thinking. The problem was in Michal's certainity, that he solely in Poland knows, what it really is all about. Sorry.

Yours,
Peter

Zmieniony przez - Merkavoth w dniu 2008-11-06 23:17:56

I quess that I know well, what in Poland it is all about

My opinnion of what you are doing was based on demos of yours school which was posted on R.Karpinski website. After my comment on it you have deleted the video....

Anyway the problem does not lies in my certainity that as you claim I don't know what in Poland it is all about. From the very beginning I was saying more often defending Ted Wong JKD approach as you started to state that Ted Wong isn't good at JKD and "Linda Lee as well as BLEF words isn't worth of attention of "people who knows what it is really all about( JKD concepts)"- those were your statement, also you were stating that even Bruce Lee was wrong. Anyway, that gave me the information (even more than I had) what it is going on in Poland and what it is all about.

Like Stefan said what we do is presenting different point of view toward the Bruce Lee's art- "JunFan/ Ted Wong approach".

In brief what I did was posted the video clip of Ted Wong and said that he is the last Bruce Lee's private student who had spent most hours with Bruce on trainig JKD ( more than anyother BL student). And that he is said to represent the "purest strain" of JKD- the closest to Bruce Lee's and that in Brodnica- the city where I live there I conduct trainings in the art of Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do.

Then you started "the problem"( to be precise Kenjiro), claiming that there is no such thing as JKD concepts and JKD original, that Dan Inosanto honoured Ted Wong with instructorship degree etc. Some time ago one of you announced Tim Tackett as the one of original Bruce Lee's student. Is this what it should be really all about in your meaning?

As Stefan said there is no reason to search the problem, becouse all that we do is to present another point of view which differs from JKD concepts.




Michal

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-07 06:31:52

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-07 06:33:03

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-07 06:39:02

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-07 06:55:12

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-07 06:57:33

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-07 07:25:38

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-07 07:28:13

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-07 07:33:44

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-07 07:48:49

Thank you for your replies. Unfortunayely it i 11´cklock and it is time for my "morning" training.

I have been busy on the Swedish and Norwegian Forum. It is time to work the physical(technical part of JKD, and let the mental and theoretical parts rest for a while.

I like these forum discussion on Forums because two me it is part of two halves, Yin/Yang. Some people are more "papertigers" and Web masters of the theoretical so called "Web Warriors". Others are practical real World "Kick ass warriors". i hope that I am both. see you after a couple of hours.

PS. I am trying a new pain killer for my Arthritis in the Hip. I am going to go 110% today and see how ir effects my constant pain in the hip

No way as way, no limitation as limitation

/SteFan