Ted Wong mówi o Jeet Kune Do- video

I don't give You any orders, I just asked You to answer my question, which I belive it's important to this topic. If I offended You, I apologise, problably I forgot to add "please" to my sentence.
Michael, I remember that we concluded that this way of keeping guard is great for fighters like bruce or muhamed ali, not for typical martial art adepts.
So why teach anyone guard like this?
I'm not from JKD Concept camp, I've trained concepts for over 5 years, but at the moment only Muay Thai does matter to me.
And I takin part in this discussion only becouse I'm curious about questions I asked. And I'm not suitable person to answer Your questions about simplicity or else.
But if we're talking about simplicity, remember that JKD (even Yours, orginal JKD) origin from wing tsun which Bruce trained. And as we all saw, Stephan uses Wing Tsung (Trapping) techniques during sparings. And to be honest, there is nothing what I can call SIMPLE in trapping techniques.

You don´t have to appologize for anyhing, I was just pointing out what I meet all over where I try to get answers. Saying "please" to your question does not still give me your answe, does it

5 years Concepts, Why did you stop and choose muay Thai?

Okey, Lets forget the JKD questions since 5 years obviously gave you no point of view on Simplicity . I will answer you about my Lead hand, since your intrest is in Muay Thay Maybe you can say Why I should consider a Muay Thai Guard.

To me a Muay Thai Guard is too wide, Ribs unprotected, hands too high, body too square. This takes me to my firts point of view on your thoughts on my On Guard.

1. Boxers have a more square Stance than JKD. Jkd prefers to turn the bode more sideways to facilitate the Lead Hand/Foot Stop Hitting, it also presents a smaller target. This is why in JKD you CAN keep the lead hand Lower since the rear hand is covering the Upper area. In Boxing the head and Body is More square, presenting a larger target, so they need two hands to cover the upper area. So understanding Boxing, understanding JKD. it is ignorant to say that this is better than that, there are reasons why they are put in a specific way. I study these reason before I make a choice, a comment on my chosen method compared to other methods.

2. Directness, simplicity. The lead hand in JKD is positioned slightly lower than the rear hand. aproxamtely at Solar Plexus hight to achieve simplicity and directness. It has to do with concealing striking lines etc. It can move from a Low backhand Position, to a high Position,losenes is important, as well as some sublte constant motion, the position from the body should be considered. The important thing is to keep it moving, the longer down the body, the wider it can move (Bruce Leé+ triangle principle" This position has to do with, directnes, awarenes etc, but 5 years of concepts should have taught you all that should it?

The important thing is that JKD is inspired by Boxing, this does not mean that JKD has a Boxing Structure. Boxing is designed for Power structure fro the rear side. The Stance is wider because they rely on generating force from the Body torgue. JKD i uses footwork, you move with every punch to generate power. This is why the JKD Guars should not look like Boxing according to Jun fan JKD.

Don´t put your lead hand down if you are not experienced. There are reasons why I have it like I have it on the clip. ABD, the distance I am in, maybe I concider myself an advanced student of JKD and can play with the position of the Lead hand, maybe there are center of gravity isus, mobility isuses why I have it like I have. You don´t have to agree with you.

I won´t give you all the details, but hopefully you are seeing that I am answering your question. I have just given you an idea of why I am keeping my Laed hand as i do, the details I leave for Michail and those genuinly wanting to study JKD.

I tink you have completely forgot one Thing about the Clip. If you listen to what I am saying you will hear that the Heavy Bag Portion is to test my abilities after 1,5 hours of hard cardiovascular Training. I was pushing myself for 1 more hour after this. Sure, my hand might been a little low, but why don´t you give me a clip when you do this routine and have perfect guard after 2,5 hours off the average puls I had. Have you ever trained this proffessionally? do you know how tough this kind of routine is? do have heart rate monitors, recorded programs that you follow to push yourself 110% without rest.

The ball is now in your corner Choose any of these question I give me at least as thorough explanation as I did. (you wil probably choose the first one and simply answer -no, I don´t have a videocamera: If you do, please answer question nr. 2 ) No, you will probably never put up a videoclip, just like 99% of those I ask, just answe question nr. 2

1. Do you have any filmklips when you train? If not Why ?
2 Why do you prefer the Guard you prefer and why?

Till now you were commenting Stefan and my posts as you ( Soul Reaver) would defend JKD concepts approach...now when you have been answered to answer, you are making excuses just to avoid answering the questions.


Let's wait and hear out from you about those last questions that Stefan wrote



Michal

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-27 15:35:06

"5 years Concepts, Why did you stop and choose muay Thai?" -> after JKD I wanted to try something different, and went on BJJ which I've trained for 2 years, and now MT becouse I always admired that martial art and fighters for they toughness and abilities.



"To me a Muay Thai Guard is too wide, Ribs unprotected, hands too high, body too square. This takes me to my firts point of view on your thoughts on my On Guard. " -> well probably You've got wrong idea of stance in MT learned from movies like "Kickboxer" where Tong Po kept his hand wide and high protecting nothing. Typical MT position is realy similar to boxing or kickboxing position, head protected by gloves, ribs by your elbows, everything is ok



"2. Directness, simplicity. The lead hand in JKD is positioned slightly lower than the rear hand. aproxamtely at Solar Plexus hight to achieve simplicity and directness. It has to do with concealing striking lines etc. It can move from a Low backhand Position, to a high Position,losenes is important, as well as some sublte constant motion, the position from the body should be considered. The important thing is to keep it moving, the longer down the body, the wider it can move (Bruce Leé+ triangle principle" This position has to do with, directnes, awarenes etc, but 5 years of concepts should have taught you all that should it? " -> 90% time of my JKD training I used typical boxing position, 10% bi jong (or how to spell it). And for me always the easiest, the most natural was boxing position.

"The important thing is that JKD is inspired by Boxing, this does not mean that JKD has a Boxing Structure. Boxing is designed for Power structure fro the rear side. The Stance is wider because they rely on generating force from the Body torgue. JKD i uses footwork, you move with every punch to generate power. This is why the JKD Guars should not look like Boxing according to Jun fan JKD. " - In boxing, kickboxing or muay thai footwork is very important in generating power of punches or kicks. Not only Body tourge.

"Don´t put your lead hand down if you are not experienced. There are reasons why I have it like I have it on the clip. ABD, the distance I am in, maybe I concider myself an advanced student of JKD and can play with the position of the Lead hand, maybe there are center of gravity isus, mobility isuses why I have it like I have. You don´t have to agree with you. " OK, if you are good enough to fight in that position is fine with me, but If you teach other people to fight like that, I concider it as a mistake.


1. Do you have any filmklips when you train? If not Why ? -> I do not have video of my training, mainly becouse I'm not public person, I train only for myself, for my own health. I don't teach anyone, so I don't have to show off my abilities in public. Simple.
2 Why do you prefer the Guard you prefer and why? -> Becouse it's the most natural position to fight for me, I feel safe having my hands high, I hit from the guard and try to kick also with keeping my guard high in order to be prepared to take some counter attack from opponent on my gloves. To be honest, i know that it's almost impossible to block your opponent's punches when you don't keep Your guard. And avoiding beeing hit only by body movement without a guard is extremly difficult, especially when Your opponent is better and faster than me. I prefer try to block punches with high guard than pray to avoid those punches only with body moves.

Are my answers satisfying?


Zmieniony przez - SoulReaver w dniu 2008-11-27 16:32:50

Zmieniony przez - SoulReaver w dniu 2008-11-27 16:33:53

Yes I am, thank you.

As far as Bloodsport as my only knowledge about Thai Boxing, sure I have over 1000 Martial arts movies in my collection, the only knowledge i have from martialarts is from movies

I also have over 2000 books, what does they say.

Close to 1000 instructional videotapes, some knowledge from there?

personal training.... I am not talking what Thai boxing are actually doing, I am talking what is being demonstrated as a Muay Thai Fighting Stance. It is the same with Karate, there is one "traditional fighting Stance" and another expressed in free Fighting.

To me the "Traditional On Guard" is the same as i use in "Fighting". I was simply commenting the "Traditional Muay thai Fighting stance", not the "modern sparring Stance". Do you want me to put up some pictures from Muay Thai books demonstrating the Guard i am talking about? do you want me to put up some clips from some of my Muay Thai Instructional Videotapes?

you are talking about "bai jong" when you talk about the JKD Fighting Stance. This is more Concepts jun fan Gung Fu terminologi. In JKD Bruce called the Stance
- On Guard
- SPBKS

People are free to call it Bai Jong, I just want to give another point of view on JKD terminology.

I am late for my morning training. A clip of mine demonstarting jun fan & Concepts realy upset the Concepts camp. I don´t know why, I was only showing two sides of the coin.

What do you think?

Wow!!!

Great comparisave clip

My opinion first approach JKD concepts- No stance, no alignment, opened groin during the combinations and movements. Moves are telegraphed for example the kick ending kick after in combination fuk sao, cros, hook, cross, kick;p- IT'S ONE BIG TELEGRAPH. When those combinations are presented by JKD concepts guys---- very low and poor technique.


Second approach "Ted Wong JKD"- This is what I am talking about!!!!! Simple, direct, alignment is kept all the time as well as proper stance. Moves are more streamlined. NON TELEGRAPHIC MOVEMENTS. And the last demonstration of Ted Wong... OH MAN it's worth to sacrafice time and wait to watch those guys doing JKD concepts techniques just to see after them "Approach 2" and to see at the end of this movie what JKD is all about When Ted Wong shows the lead punching techniques, speed, footwork, everything is flawless. JUST TREMENDOUS!!!!!!!!

This comparison is GREAT!!! Shows everything as it is "without a fuss", I wonder why those JKD concepts guys were so unhappy after Stefan put this movie in the internet.

Outstandingly good job Stefan !!!!!



Question to Merkavoth, Kenjiro, Qnick, SoulReaver and all the rest? Are you satisfied? . Is Bruce Lee's JKD really so old-fashioned and doesn't fit to modern world? Does JKD concepts fit more to modern world becouse during the combinations they are loosing the stance and their punches are slobby? We have got here footage of Dan Inosanto and Larry Harstell is anyone of you SoulReaver etc guys who trained JKD concepts for long time can tell me where are those examples of Bruce Lee's JKD principles as such as: Non telegraphing movement? Simplicity, Directness, every move should start and end up in On guuard, 80% of attacks are lead hand and lead leg?

In Ted Wong clip his every move is filled Bruce Lee's JKD and shows that this is pure Bruce Lee's JKD.


We have both sides here presented. It's easy or should I say IT'S OBVIOUS to see and understand who went more away from Bruce Lee's teaching and is doing his own vision of JKD and who was loyal and stayed with Bruce Lee's teachings and is still going this path

Michal

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-28 15:31:54

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-28 15:36:06

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-28 15:48:59

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-28 15:50:33

Hola Hola, klip przedstawiający trenującego Dana Inosanto jest szkoleniówką dotyczącą Jun Fun Gung Fu, a nie Jeet Kune Do. Niedawno miałem okazję uczestniczyć w seminarium z Ronem Balickim. Dawno nie widziałem tyle perfekcji w wykonywanych technikach oraz siły w uderzeniach płynącej z ruchu. Nie wspomnę już o wszechstronności, o której Ted Wong może tylko pomarzyć.

Zmieniony przez - buczah w dniu 2008-11-28 18:17:06

Buczah wrote: Hold on a sec, video clip with Dan Inosanto is an instructional video about Jun Fan Gung Fu not JKD".

Now you are jumping into your own misconclusions. Why? You must have forgotten that Dan Inosanto said that Jun Fan Gung Fu is the base system for the JKD right, and that JKD is just an idea where you take techniques from other styles and mix it with Jun Fan Gung Fu. But there is no relabale soruce that Bruce had been doing that way. On contrary as the info from BLEF website says JKD is unique with it's own methodology and that Bruce wasn't incorporating many different techniqes into his repertoire. In conclusion Dan Inosanto is not teaching JKD but Jun Fan Gung Fu, right becouse this is the material which is being thought as the original JKD by him. There is also clip with Harstell where he says that this is JKD.


Ted Wong is teaching JKD and always says that there is a difference between JKD and Jun Fan Gung Fu.


Do you see the difference between the clips? To say that clip with Inosanto is about JF gung Fu not JKD is a very poor excuse


Buczah, I hope that you understand what Stefan and I write here in English if not I will try to translate to you those passages which are hard for you to understand.



Michal



Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-28 18:22:57

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-11-28 18:23:12

Here is the rest part of the text which Buczah wrote after editing his text beside that in the clip Inosanto is presenting JF Gung Fu and not JKD. He said that he "...partic****ted in Ron Balcicki seminar. And that for long time he didn't see such perfectionism in techniques and power in movements and such versatility about which Ted Wong can only dream about".

Buczah I will tell you only one thing :D comparing Ron Balciki with Ted Wong is like comparing shit(Balicki) with food(Ted Wong) .




Michal

Michał,cały czas sugerujesz,ze Dan Inosanto mówił, że JKD jest mixem różnych sztuk walk. Widziałem wiele wywiadów i takiego stwierdzenia nie zarejestrowałem. Mówił jedynie, że JKD powstało dzięki studiowaniu przez Bruce Lee wielu sztuk walk. Widzisz różnicę, czy mam tłumaczyć dalej? . Jeśli chodzi o Jun Fun Gung to nigdy nie słyszałem by było ono system bazowym. Inosanto mówił natomiast,że to jest to co Bruce trenował po przyjeździe do Stanów Zjednoczonych, zanim powstało Jeet Kune Do.
Co do różnicy w klipach, to widzę jedynie, że Ted Wong kopie nogą i wyprowadza prosty podczas gdy Inosanto uczy kombinacji. Aby zrozumieć to co zostało na klipie pokazane trzeba zrozumieć jaka jest intencja Inosatno w nauczaniu najpierw Jun Fun Gung Fu, a dopiero później JKD. Chodzi o lepsze zrozumienie JKD, o przejście jak Bruce, ewolucji z Gung Fu do JKD, po to, by zrozumieć czym jest JKD i dlaczego ma taki kształt a nie inny. Na treningach uczymy się dokładnie tego co pokazuje Stefan, jednak ćwiczymy na obie strony, jak również kombinacji uderzeń nogą wykroczną i zakroczną. Czy możesz zamieścić jakiś klip lub zdjęcie gdzie Ten Wong udzerza lewą nigą, mam wątpliwości czy w ogóle potrafi jej używać? .