Ted Wong mówi o Jeet Kune Do- video

Now, when we have that one explained

Can we get back to the discussion?


Stefan and I had answered for your questions, but still we didn't hear your comments and answers on our questions.



Again, SoulReaver please put here something about your JKD approach and than I will show how JKD "groundfighting" please take at note that it should be considered "groundfighting" and not JKD groundfighting ( It's funny, although very direct example) look like- that one which happend during my sparing at Stefan "JKD dream gym"

:d


Michal

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-25 14:35:39

"why Stefan teaches ground fighting with elements of BJJ/Submission? "

At least you have understood one thing

"Stefan teaches ground fighting...."

But you are only explaining your own point of view when you are writing

"..... with elements of BJJ/Submission? "

This is to me the typical Concepts approach. To me there is nothing JKD about BJJ/Submission, it is simply MartialSport and has nothing to do with JKD and self Deense.

Well, I am a liitle bit wrong here, the only thing it HAS to do with self Defense according to me is what NOT TO Do in selfdefens

But I am not closeminded, I know that knowing something about this MartialSport on the ground helps my JKD approach in Ground FIGHTING.

Let me just point out that the difference is that Concepts people say that this "Training for what NOT TO DO" and the "Training for knowing what grapplers CAN DO" IS JKD Grappling, I am sayiong that from jun fan JKd point of view it is simply Grappling. In Jun fan JKD there is only Groundfighting, and in my Self Defense there is no place for submission and GJJ.

/SteFan

I hope that now the differences "in grappling matter" in both JKD approaches had been showed and explained somehow. All I see is that Stefan had answered for the questions about the video where he is showing some groundfighting techniques.


Do you Soul Reaver, Buczah, or Kenjiro- the one who accused Stefan of teaching as Kenjiro defined "mere grappling techniques that had been seen previously by him on various instructional tapes", the one who made ironicall statement about what Stefan is teaching.


Do you have got any comment to add now?

Now when Stefan had explained it... I have got a question to you concepts guys... On what condition do you teach BJJ and submission, Vale Tudo, Muay Thai elements as JKD? I asked you about the examples, evidences, that would stand for it?

Why all of a sudden you- JKD concepts people, are silent?


Michal

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-26 19:55:58

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-27 12:44:41

This is the phone conversation of Bruce Lee with Dan Lee from aroun 1972.






Hopefully you will understand what they are talking about.

Here are some things that I catched out from the converstation

Bruce Lee opinnion on Muay Thai:

" Dan: Yeah. There's the Kickboxing Association right in Hollywood Boulevard. You have to go and see it?
Bruce: They have kickboxing. I saw it in Thailand personally. The bantamweight champion was one of the stuntmen.
Dan: Yeah.
Bruce: Well the problem with them is that they are the John L. Sullivan with there legs (Laughs). I mean they have no finesse. Nothing.
Dan: No. They hurt the thigh and they try and make the other to completely give up.
Bruce: Well not all of them do that. You can do that when you are stationary but not when you're constantly moving.
Dan: I hear the Japanese have incorporated the sweeping kick on the Thailand high kick. The moment they high kick, the Japanese move in and sweep the foot away. Thai have real trouble with there balance because they kick too high.
Bruce: That's right and because they too obvious. That's the whole deal you see. There is no suddenness, no economy.
Dan: No broken rhythm either, you can see it coming.
Bruce: That's right - John L. Sullivan. That's why 80% of the knockouts is done by hand.
Dan : ..............that Chandler? Guy..
Bruce: No you put him in the ring, the boxer would just hit on him.
Dan: Right"

It's the 1972 and hear Bruce pointed out his doubts about Muay Thai Now "JKD concepts guys" what makes you think that Bruce had incorporated kicks from Muay Thai? Please don't say that you didn't say that etc. As I read it on Kenjiro webpage...He wrote there that "Bruce and Dan looked over 200 different martial arts and took the most effective techniques from them into JKD repertoire for example Muay Thai kicks into kicking range..." This is what he is stating on his webpage... Anyone can check it Again, my question is--- On what condition do you think so?

Here is what Bruce said about Dan Inosanto:

" Bruce: Great. Dan (Inosanto) -- I told him last time is that he's becoming very stylized. All the preparation before kicking and it seems like his consciousness is really bothering him. Something is bugging him -- you know what I mean?
Dan: Yeah. Well, I think his heavy bag kicking -- too much heavy bag kicking has affected him in got too much body twisting instead of just going right through. Instead of Boom!!"

Any comments on that? ??


Now "JKD groundfighting" here is a demonstration from Longbeach 1967. Bruce Lee sparring...

Now in 0:05, Bruce is doing a leg sweep, and ends with punch in the head.....





Buczah, you said that in JKD there are elements of BJJ etc right? Why then Bruce here in DEMO SPARRING didn't go to arm bar or Why he didn't presented those grappling techniques or why he didn't go in the ground with opponnent and
start to "toss all over the floor" with him like people from BJJ do?

Again, any comments on that?

Why don't you put some evidences that would stand up for your point of view and "theories" about JKD?




Michal




Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-27 14:57:34

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-27 15:07:30

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-27 15:25:16

"Why don't you put some evidences that would stand up for your point of view and "theories" about JKD?"

Do you want me to answer that for you

No, honestly, please give your point of you on why the Concepts approach has added Muay Thai. Let´s start there. Chai Sirisute is the one that almost every Concepts guy is certified by.Every cocepts school teaches the Chai sirisute lineage as JKD Concepts.

I would be very intrested to see where it fits in the JKD principle. This is because Thai Boxing never lived up to the JKd principles according to me. I would be really glad if I, for once, could be expalined the reaseon and principles why Concept people feel it fits prefectly in their JKD Blend.

/SteFan

There are a lot of Chai Sirisute pictures with Inosanto... Maybe this is the reason why they added Muay Thai ? Becouse they are collegues....??


I really look foward to hear reasons of "concepts guys" that will stand up for their point of view.


Stefan, I am sure that if you start to put evidences that will stand up for our point of view then the discussion will be

Stefan: Evidence standing for and presenting Ted Wong JKD approach and it's difference between Inosanto approach.


Michal: " WHAT A GREAT EVIDENCE, Concepts guys any comments on that? "


Concepts guys:".......Silence.........."




Michal

To many dan Inosanto is the "Gateway that opens up the market". Take Savate. dan inosanto took in Saleem Assli to his academy to teach savate. All of a Seudden Savate was put on the map, just as Chai sirisute and Thai Boxing. Francis Fong Wanted to spread Wing Chun, who did he start to teach for.

Then came Brazilian Ju Jutsu. The Gracies had established themselves, The Machade Brothers wanted to get a piece of the pai, who did they contact Paul de Thouras and Silat......

It smells like good business to me

I am sure that there are more than Financial reasons why these masters became famous masters by being connected to dan Inosanto nad his JKD Connection to Bruce lee. I hope to hear som other oppinions of this Blend att the Inosanto Academy and why his instructors all over the world also hold certfificate Ranks in Svatae, Thai Boxing, Silat by these masters teaching att the Academy. How it fits into the system of the Simple Direct and Non-Classical approach of Bruce Lee´s JKD.

/SteFan

/SteFan

I wonder why all of a sudden those people who said to represent "Inosanto approach" are unable to stand for their own point of view and not even to confront their arguments.....


On one of the other forum... It's the forum of one of the JKD concepts school. Someone put link to this discussion, Merkavoth said that here "he" was sourrounded by morons and closed minded people.....

I quess he wasn't brave enough to say the same here and he isn't brave enough to stand up for "concepts approach". It shouldn't be hard to him as everything is set up--- all of the evidences like what Inosanto said about JKD and what Ted Wong said about JKD and briefly image what they are teching compared with what Bruce Lee was actually doing. The comparison between "Inosanto JKD concepts approach" to "Ted Wong JKD approach" from technical point of view on VIDEO made by Stefan...


My question for JKD concepts is.... What's wrong? By not taking up the discussion you prove to me that you've got nothing to say becouse you can't answer the facts, questions stated here. Only when you"concepts" people had a chance to blame someone for being disrespectful, closed minded etc. then you were writing very long post about how narrow minded Stefan and I are, how Dan Inosanto is better than Ted Wong, but when you "concepts guys" were asked to prove what you are claiming, all that I hear from you is" Silence" .

I quess that if Stefan like to make it very hard for you and bring up here some very unsuitable facts for "concepts approach" ( in fact those are just facts about JKD but they are unsuitable for "concepts approach" representatives somehow )then all that I would have heard from you "concepts guys" would be "SILENCE COMPLETELY".

I can assure you "concepts guys" that this topic won't end just becouse you aren't writing here. More and more comparisons, facts is going to be added constantly.



Michal

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-31 12:06:56

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-31 12:07:42

Here are some things that this Moron has achieved with his closemindeness. It would be inspiring to see what I could achieve with the knowledge and experience all you Concepts guys have acjieved.