Ted Wong mówi o Jeet Kune Do- video

Stefan knows what I have written there. I wrote the same here in English some time ago, when I said that It would had been waste of time and money if I went to that polish JKD "expert".

And ofcourse I have put some questions that you may ask Inosanto if he come to Poland: "Like when Linda Lee asked Inosanto why does he teach Wing chun dummy sets becouse Bruce didn't train such thing he replied: Well, I made it up."- So why does he names it Bruce Lee'sJKD?- It's not a secret man. I also wrote that you may ask him why did he say that JKD is a blend of 27 different MA if there is no reliable source to proove that?

Also some of you told me to go around Poland and spar with you guys so I replied that I had a better stuff to do and I don't understand why I should be going around Poland like a circuss. And I know that that JKD "expert" was going around Poland and showing off his picture with Harstell or Inosanto and was saying "I am doing JKD not you guys..." This topic was moved here on the forum a long time a go by some frustrated guy who expierieced that behaviour. I want to tell you something. And that "expert" guy is not my superior and never will be, it depends of course in which meaning, he was the first in Poland to teach JKD- and now we have people who claim that in JKD there are techniques from Aikido, that JKD is a mix of martial arts and that it's MMA of late 70s, in no other meaning he may be called superior, as he was the first( but to be detailed first in Poland who was visiting Inosanto and teaching JKD from his lineage is Dariusz Cieszyński who also teach Estokada system)one after 1989r who appeared with JKD here in Poland.

I just asked you that why don't we reminiscent some other things that had been written about those people who claim to be "experts" in JKD in Poland. Like playing "Enter the dragon scenes" in front of the students?

Only thing what I hear are those about me...

I put myself in a bad light? Wow, just becouse you can't asnwer to the questions or confront the "two sides of the coin"? I noticed very same thing that Stefan said when something "bad" is being told about Inosanto then all of the attacks beging, When some "bad" statements toward Ted Wong are produced then you guys are silent becouse then everything is Ok by your opinnion. I write all of the time about JKD, you guys always start the fuss that I am this or that, so who tries to put who in a bad light?



Anyway, I will start to make those comparison of statements without a fuss, Stefan already did the comparison from the techniqual point of view which is being on his video.

Why don't you like to comment on that? And all of the time strict to my person and instead of discussing about JKD, I find myself in you concepts guys discussing about me.

Michal




Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 11:42:18

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 11:49:49

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 11:50:09

P.S

I forgot to add that I also asked Kenjiro what he thaught as JKD before he was thaught by Rick Young about short arc principle, traingle in the stance etc.?

I also add that in later stages of development of JKD Bruce resigned from short arc principle in straight lead and refined it to more that it was more econimical. I also said that short arc principle was mentioned in Jack Dempsey's book which Bruce had in his library.


That's why I was banned and my messages were deleted. As they were not about the subject- that was the explanation of the moderator.

So please tell me where did I uderestimate input of Dan Inosanto in JFJKD Nucleus?

I said that in the JFJKD Nucleus there were Inosanto students like Chris Kent, Tim Tackett

I said that Inosanto wasn't part of the Nucleus is that untrue?

Merkavoth, answering your question: Do I know from where did you have those information.... All you did was write in google Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Nucleus and there you go:
http://www.jkd.com.hk/Eng/Info/Information.htm

My advice to you is read this:

"JUN FAN JEET KUNE DO: AS DEFINED BY THE JUN FAN JEET KUNE DO NUCLEUS

Over the years, many people have made claims regarding the proper definition of Bruce Lee's art. Some have defined it as a process of "change;" others have labeled it as simply "modified Wing Chun;" others, with the best of intentions have stated that it is simply an eclectic jumble of various styles and arts that hopefully will, at some unspecified point in the future, gestalt into something meaningful for the individual practitioner.
With the formation of Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do, however, there no longer exists any need for such contradictory and confusing definitions. There is but one definition for Jun fan Jeet Kune Do and here it is:
Jun fan Jeet Kune Do is the complete body of technical (physical and scientific) and philosophical (mental, social, spiritual) knowledge that was studied and taught by Bruce Lee during his lifetime.
In other words, Jun fan Jeet Kune Do (with, as its core, the combative principles, physical techniques, training methods, and philosophical ideas synthesized by Bruce Lee during his lifetime) is concerned solely and exclusively with Bruce Lee's personal evolution and process of self-discovery through martial art as indicated and supported by the written record (Bruce Lee's personal papers and library) and oral history (recollections of those who spent time with and/or studied under Bruce Lee). That's it. Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do concerns itself with presenting Bruce Lee's ideas and opinions - and not anyone else's interpretation of them - with regard to:

* The history and development of his art
* The philosophy that supports and extends from the art
* The training and conditioning methods necessary to realize the physical (and mental/spiritual) aspects of the art
* The scientific principles underlying the foundation of the techniques Bruce Lee emphasized and held to be significant
* The life, art and career of Bruce Lee

A distinction is made between this body of work (i.e., Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do) and an individual student's own personal process of self-discovery through martial art, in that each student is free to utilize all, some or none of Bruce Lee's teachings to assist him in this respect.
Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do is not about setting up restrictions or "Ways" of doing things. It has no interest in trying to mold or shape you. It accepts you as you are. Much like when a bubbling spring flows out from the mountains, it is simply there for a thirsty traveler should he wish to partake of it. When a bird sings, it does not sing for the advancement of music, but if somebody stops to listen and is delighted, that is fine. And Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do seeks likewise to be a source of inspiration and delight solely for those who posses an interest in Bruce Lee and the martial viewpoint that he created. Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do should be considered the base that Bruce Lee established and not the ultimate goal of the individual who studies it. Individuals may, and if fact are expected to, modify, add and delete until they have transcended the need for any "way" or "system" at all - including Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do. We should welcome change, but the person changing should claim responsibility for his own innovations. Nor should Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do be called obsolete after a martial artist evokes these changes into a personal interpretation. In holding true to Bruce Lee's philosophy of personal liberation, it works on the principle of a physician rather than a patent. A physician is always trying to get rid of his patients and send them away healthy enough to stand on their own two feet. Bruce Lee's ultimate objective as a teacher was to get rid of his students so that they wouldn't need him or any other teacher.
Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do can be viewed as a guide to reach the highest peak of personal liberation through the study of martial arts. You, the individual become, through this process of self-discovery, your own best teacher. What we really need to know about ourselves and how we perform throughout our daily life should not end when graduating from school. Throughout our Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do journey, the martial arts trials and tribulations we experience result in a never-ending gain in self-knowledge and growth.
Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do is concerned solely with Bruce Lee's body of work - as he taught it - and with the preservation and perpetuation of this body of work."

here is the link: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/8669/junfan.htm



By the way one and I quess main reason why my account was banned and my messages were deleted. It was also did becouse you asked moderator to delete my messages I quess that you forgot to tell it here on forum, Merkavoth.

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 12:23:49

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 12:31:02

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 12:33:47

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 12:49:32

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 12:49:59

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 13:02:51

I didn't post such thing here from simple reason. I didn't contact the moderator in any way. You were banned without intervention of any other than the moderator himself. And there's more to your ban than just making an offtopic. As the moderator wrote you - 'cool down'. It didn't happen by accident, he must've regarded your posts offensive. And not only him.

But I'm glad you're willing to change that

Now, about the meritum of the topic...
First, I'd like you to cease to treat all the responders like were one person. I myself not once said anything bad about Ted Wong, neither on forum or in life. Neither did I tell anything bad on Stefan. I might have told some bullshit about you though, from the reasons stated above

Next... when I spoke of your superiors, I meant the Nucleus staff. I meant that if the official statement of Nucleus staff is that Dan Inosanto has a vast knowledge on JFJKD and contributes to the art. I wanted to turn your attention to the fact, that making the statements about Inosanto's lack of knowledge (And what he is teaching is the vision of Inosanto on JKD. That's why I called it "shit" / Juast as inosantos, and maybe that is the reason why... / some others), you're not reflecting their attitude, but yours.

Now, about the immortal question about Inosanto teaching 27 martial arts as a JKD... I seriously doubt that. I never had the chance to hear something like that from anyone else than you. The thing about that I think is closer to truth is, that Dan Inosanto is teaching JKD AMONG other 27 martial arts, which could be a fact as he probably knows that much. The fact that he is skilled in those martial arts affects the way he moves, just as everything we know and learn affects our behaviour, sometimes without us knowing that. Ron Balicki told on our seminar: "Whatever you do in life affects the overall way you fight. Your physics, your knowledge, your hobbies and work - it all contributes to the way you act."
And I thing that is as close to the truth as it can be.

First of all you said that no one had asked moderator to delete my messages:

Here is what Kenjiro wrote in that " Po seminarium..." subject:

"Proszę nie robić burdelu z mojego tematu! Proszę moderatora o usunięcie wypowiedzi, lub przeniesienie gdzie indziej, nie na temat czyli od pierwszego postu MichalaJF włącznie. Dziękuję. "

In translation: " Please don't make "call house" from my topic! Dear moderator please delete posts which aren't reffering to the topic or tranfer them somewhere else which would start with inclusion of the first post of MichalJF. Thank you".

Is it not good ore suffice evidence for that you asked moderator to earese my posts? How come they where in the topic all the time and shortly after Kenjiro message they were deleted... But there is more to come....

Merkavoth in brief you wrote that you didn't want to read my messages as they are making you sick and makes aerenterectasia to you.

Was that the post which reffered to the subject?

Then Slaby56 wrote that I should go around Poland and spar with you that when I was 15 years old I squealed like a dog becouse I wanted go train with that JKD polish "expert" trainings.

Wasn't that insulting toward me? Was that reffering to the subject? I quess that all of the posts which didn't reffer to the subject were requested to be deleted... Why then only my posts where, the posts of MichalJF were asked to be deleted? Why does those posts which offends me in obvious way are still there?

Now let's consider the posts which I wrote: I answered to Slaby56 that I was 15 years old and very soon I realized that my trainings with that polish JKD "expert" would be just a waste of my time and money. As soon as I realized that what he is doing is JKD concepts ( or maybe not even that).

The I asked few questions: " What Kenjiro thought as JKD before he learned about those very basic JKD things which he learned on last trainings with Rick Young?

I asked why don't you guys ask Dan Inosanto why he statet that he made up the Wing Chun dummy sets and thought is as JKD? Why does he said that it's a blend of 27 different martial arts? and one very important If Dan Inosanto knows that here in Poland there are people who say that are instructors under them? And If he ever signed a instructor certificate to anyone from Poland? etc ( I have already written that above in my earlier post).

Now where did I offend or insult someone in my posts? Were those questions so insulting to you guys that you had to ask moderator to delete it? Or maybe you were afraid of the possible answers on them?

So I quess the only person who may feel offended or insulted is me... But I don't give a damn about it as more and more I am getting more confident that this is all that you can write as your answers are concerned.

Merkavoth first of all I didn't say that Inosanto lack knwoledge, but that Ted Wong has spent for sure most amount on training with Bruce Lee on JKD. I said that Inosanto teach something completely differnt than Ted Wong and that in my opinnion Ted Wong JKD is the closest to Bruce Lee's.

What I have said that you guys from JKD concepts must have some lack of knowledge. As before I started to write on this forum you didn't know that there is such thing as JKD concepts and that it is what you train- Inosanto lineage.

I was suprised that you didn't know about those "27 martial arts" which are also called Jun Fan martial arts. Everyone who train under Inosanto and is an instructor under him knows about their existance. I paste for you video clips of Inosanto telling: " Jeet Kune Do is a mix of martial atrs". While you are saying that it's not and that FMA and whole of the rest is just additional.

Then Stefan put his "two sides of the coin" comparison video- still no comments on that from your side of the coin- Concepts guys

The I gave you quotation from "Bruce Lee Jeet Kune Do commentaries on martial arts". And asked questions- still no answers from your side of the coin- concepts guys.


Why do I treat you as "one" and I am talking about you as "one"- concepts guys. Becouse you claim to represent the same lineage

Merkavoth what you have said about Ted Wong and Stefan and as well about me I have already posted here on forum So you don't have to explain yourself.

What I have realized is that all of you concepts guys reply in exact way as Stefan told me that you will be replying.

Having no arguments you simply paste all of the huge parts of the text from various webpages about JKD- Is that all you know? Is that he main source of your knwoledge?

What's more you said that you didn't hear ever before about those 27 different MA- I have listed it for you in my earlier posts in this topic. You were the one who announced Ron Balickis seminar in Poland, I quess you or your trainer were the hosts. I have already told you that Balicki wrote that Inosanto Jeet Kune Do approach is a blend of 27 different martial arts. Did you read his book? You said that he is a good friend of your trainer right so your trainer must have known about those 27 different MA as JKD, ask him why he still didn't tell you that? And of course you had opportunity to ask Balicki about it? Did you ask?


Now let's get back to the post where I put quotes from foreword of Ted Wong in Bruce Lee Jeet Kune Do commentaries on martial arts and Bruce Lee's quote.

I asked there some questions. Can you consider them over and answer me?


P.S

I have explained to you why I use definitions of "shit" for Inosanto and "food" for Ted Wong and Stefan Nikander. Again, I underline If you think it over and understand what I wanted to say then you will realize that I didn't insult Inosanto.
You have written that practical value of Ted Wong teachings is useless just as statue in Museum...

You write those things but you don't have even a smallest clue what Ted Wong JKD approach is. I have advantage of you "concepts" guys as I know exactly what you do what do you consider as JKD.

Michal

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 23:24:34

And as far as adding some styles to JKD and still calling it JKD:

Have you read that JFJKD explanation by JFJKD Nucleus?

What do you think about that?

Individuals may, and if fact are expected to, modify, add and delete until they have transcended the need for any "way" or "system" at all - including Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do. We should welcome change, but the person changing should claim responsibility for his own innovations. Nor should Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do be called obsolete after a martial artist evokes these changes into a personal interpretation. In holding true to Bruce Lee's philosophy of personal liberation, it works on the principle of a physician rather than a patent. A physician is always trying to get rid of his patients and send them away healthy enough to stand on their own two feet. Bruce Lee's ultimate objective as a teacher was to get rid of his students so that they wouldn't need him or any other teacher.

Don't you think I have already said that in my earlier posts? Where I stated that I have nothing against you to add FMA etc etc. But why do you call it JKD, why do you hide behind those three letters and Bruce Lee's name.


One more thing as more you write Merkavoth as more I am getting amused. You said that what JFJKD Nucleus says is not worth of paying attention as Inosanto and you guys know what JKD is really about.

You have said also that Nucleus wants to make a crystalized style out of Bruce Lee's art. In that text which you paste isn't there said that Inosanto agreed that his goal and Nucleus goals are the same? Maybe Inosanto goal had changed through over the years and that's why now he must call what he is teaching Jeet Kuen and not Jeet Kune Do?


What is being written above about JFJKD. I ahve got a question Bruce Lee intend was that his students in effect won't be needing him or any other instructors.

Now learning new and new styles from many different instructors as Inosanto does, incorporating many of those techniques into his repertoire. Isn't that contrary to what Bruce wanted to obtain? Bruce didn't incorporate techniques from many different martial arts into his repertoire. Why then you think that Inosanto is the only one who really understood what JKD is about?
To me he is doing everything contrary to what Bruce Lee did.

Stefan gave very good example, as some of you ( It was Buczah) said that you looking for new techniques for ex. from FMA to improve your technique or make it simpler. So Stefan asked: "What do you think about hubud?" Why do you incorporate that ? It's tottaly contrary to economy of motion as there are 2 passive movements and then hit, instead of hit

By the way I have got to correct one thing I didn't say "shit"-Inosanto and "food"-Ted Wong.
It was during the discussion when one of you ( to be precise) Buczah said that Balicki proved his worth is MMA trounaments and started to compare him with Ted Wong which to me was more than silly.

There I wrote that Balicki is "shit" and Ted Wong is "food". And that that kind of comaprison shouldn't even take place. As Ted Wong is 1 st generation student- Original Bruce Lee student and Balicki is 2nd generation student- Inosanto student.

And when you consider it you will know that I was right and that I didn't insult anybody. By the way the calim Inosanto"shit", Ted Wong"food" is also very interesting


Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 23:46:10

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-05 23:56:37

Zmieniony przez - MichalJF w dniu 2008-12-06 01:13:42

i will get back to this discussion. i just wanted everyone to know that i support my younger JKD brother in Poland.

I think I have a story about my Braintumour that will expalin his attitude and the whole situation quite clearly.

As a matter of fact, he is doing exactly what was needed from me 10 years ago in scandinavia, he is doing what I needed to do the first years with my Braintumour.

Think about that, what did I need to do. Now i will go and train a small private group, heavy bag and Body Pump in a one hour fitness Circuit.

/Stefan

Witam bardzo interesuje mnie Jkd o ktorym mowisz Michale ... trenuje niedlugo bo rok Własciwie sam nie wiem co trenuje, zawsze cos mi nie pasowalo w JKD ktorego sie uczylem nie wszystko bylo takie jakie powinno być z jednej strony byly slowa smoka a z drogiej to co robilismy nie zawsze sie zgadzalo... moze sam jeszcze wiem zbyt mało ale chcialem sie dowiedziec czegos o seminariach ewentualnych treningach moge prosic maila albo jakikolwiek kontakt ...

Becouse of obvious reasons I will translate your post Judek into English.

" Hi, I am very interested in the JKD about which you speak Michal...I don't train not for a long becouse for a year. As a matter of fact I don't know what I am training, ever since I have started always there was something that didn't fit to me in JKD that I train, not everything get along. On one side there were words of the Dragon but on the other side those things that we trained didn't fit to them...Maybe I have got to little knwoledge I wanted to ask about seminars and trainings can I ask you for e-mail or anyother contact."

Judek, możesz do mnie napisać na mój mail michalc*****@onet.eu, lub napisać do mnie na gg 4783414.

Judek, you can write to me on my email michalc*****@onet.eu or write to me on the gg- polish communicator my nr is 4783414.

It's very good that the discussion on this forum had made you to open up on another point of view.


Michal

Still no answer from concepts guys on the aksed questions. Here Merkavoth stated that he waits for right JKD spokesman with whom he can debate. I quess that only ones with whom he can debate are people from his own camp as they always agree with him and never ask unsuitable questions.

In this case I must say that I am waiting for right person from JKD concepts camp with whom we ( Stefan and I) could conduct debate about JKD becouse by far most of the time you-concept guys were taking up the discussion about me and my personality ( I wonder how they are able to speak about that as they don't know me).

So anyone from JKD concepts you've got to have something to tell... And I am not talking here about pasting the whole massive parts of the text from various websites.

Stefan and I have stated here clear arguments and clear quoestion.

I quess that I should get use to it that when there is time for you to answer you simply sit quietly with hope that no one will continue the topic. And after a while you will write something like: " Oh yeah?! How about that" and you will paste another link to another website or text from the website. And comment: " What do you think about it blablablabla". Why don't you concepts guys firstly answer on our questions Try to prove what you claim. Be the man of your words.... or try to be...



Michal

Witam
Długo siedziałem cichutko przyglądając się temu o czym panowie Mistrzowie piszecie i... powiem jedno-wstyd mi za was
Panie Michale c*****, Panie Buczach- każdy z Was chwali swoje i to jeszcze można zrozumieć ale do cholery nie obrażajcie nikogo z tych ludzi o których piszecie tylko dlatego że byliście na seminarium z tym lub tamtym.
Każdy z nich czy to Guru Inosanto Ted Wong Erik Paulson Ron Balicki Larry Hatrsell Michał c***** Stefan czy ja zasługują na coś co nazywa się szacunkiem-BARANY
Podobno sztuki walki nauczają szacunku i prowadzą do oświecenia-szkoda tylko że o tym zapomnieliście.
Pozdrawiam i uciekam też po cichu nim ktoś znów rzuci kamieniem lub mądrą obelgą.
Przy okazji-szkoda że jak była możliwość nie zapytaliście o tak ważne rzeczy o których teraz piszecie Sifu Bustillo-bohaterzy