Posiłki na diecie TKD

Wazny jest bilans energetyczny organizmu - jesli bedzie tyle co trzeba to nie powinno byc problemu z 3 posilkami, ale tez zalezy to od wagi - bo trudno np 100kg chopowi jesc okolo 200g bialka w trzech posilkach
ale spotkalem sie z 3 posilkami u niektorych osob i zdaly egzamin - co prawda byla to dieta ckd ale nie ma to akurat tutaj za duzego znaczenia. Sam jednak stosowalem okolo 5 posilkow chocby przez przyzwyczajenie z typowej diety na mase

Wiedza to podstawa ... ale im wiecej wiemy tym bardziej sie boimy

> 5. is it ok to eat right after my morning cardio, or should i wait a few
> hours to maximum the fat-burning?

Te calorie burn after most types of cardio is negligble so I see little point.

> In Lyle's book, he says not to eat fat soon after a carbup and exercise, while
> doing a TKD. Does anyone know how long to wait before ingesting fat again? I
> just ate some smarties, did resistance workout for about an hour and then had a
> protein drink (with flaxseed oil- any problem adding that then?) for about 40
> gms protein. When can I start eating fat and protein meals again?

3-4 hours would be about right, give insulin levels time to settle back down.

the estimations I made a while back are that for every 2 sets of roughly
45 seconds in length, you need about 5 grams of carbs to refill muscle
glycogen (this was mainly in context to keto diets and the TKD but the
same numbers should hold here). So if you did 20 work sets, that'd only
be 50 grams of carbs to refill. Of course, if you want to refill
glycogen and then some, you'd need more carbs than that.


> I took a look through my cupboard to see what food(s) I could eat to achieve
> such a balance ... black-eyed peas seem to fit the carb/pro ratio very well
> (17g Carb, 6g Pro, 0g Fat per serving with 3 servings per can). According to
> the *grammage* (i know that's not a word) I would have to eat 4 freekin cans to
> meet the suggested requirement. I know that I could eat 2 cans, be 4 would be
> a big challenge that might result in *spewage*.
> Can you suggest other foods with less bulk that can provide the ratios that you
> suggested?

Although I'm usually no fan of supplements, the high post-workout carb
intake is a place where I think they are invaluable. I personally use
Ultra fuel (which contains 25 grams carbs, a mix of glucose with a small
amount of fructose, per scoop) with some type of whey protein. I can
put 100+ grams of carbs and 40 grams of protein in a fairly small volume
of liquids (maybe takes 8-10 oz of fluid to get it all to mix) and it's
a lot easier than eating whole foods.

You can find bulk maltodextrin (which is just glucose polymers) at beer
brewing places (or so I'm told, whenever I've asked about such things,
people give me blank stares) which would probably be cheaper in the long
run than Ultra fuel.

But trying to get 100+ grams of carbs of solid food after trainnig (when
many folks aren't hungry to begin wiis nearly impossible.


Kilka odpowiedzi od Lyle zobacz czy wystarczy

Fakty, nie mity
'Alternatywna Droga'

Biniu - dzięki, bardzo przydatne!

Jeszcze jedno pytanko (mam nadzieję że na koniec) - z wyliczeń wynika że gdybym utrzymywał podaż białka na poziomie 2g/kg oraz proporcję białka do tłuszczy jak 1:1, spożywałbym 2405 kcal, nie licząc tych ekstra węglowodanów po treningu (185g białka i 185 g tłuszczy). Przy proporcji 1:1,5 to już wychodzi 3240 kcal (moim zdaniem za dużo).

Czy lepszym wyjsciem jest obciać białko np. do 1,5g/kg ale utrzymać proporcje B : T = 1 : 1,5 czy też zostawić białko na poziomie 2g/kg a proporcje B : T = 1 : 1 ?

Pozdrawiam, Tyka

zamiast dawać soga kliknij tu : http://www.pajacyk.pl 

Przez pierwsze 2 tyg. utrzymuj proporcje b:t 1:1,5, zanim nie dojdzie do przebudowy struktury enzymów komórkowych na korzyść enzymów ezymów utylizujących wkt, przy ograniczeniu enzymów glikolitycznych. W przeciwnym razie przy negatywnym bilansie kaloryczym część białka będzie przetwarzana na glukozę. W tym okresie do carb-up proponuję używać tylko 20g w/w, zgodnie z Atkinsem. Potem możesz spokojnie iść w górę z białkiem i w/w, zmniejszając proporcjonalnie tłuszcz, byle nie z dnia na dzień

skorzystaj z

http://www.users.voicenet.com/~petrizzi/fitness/ckdcalc.html

'część białka będzie przetwarzana na glukozę'
wg Lyle i tak 58 % bialka jest w kazdych okoliczosciach przetwarzane na glukoze

The normal
value for developing ketosis is 100 g carbs/day or less (note: this goes
up if you're active). Below that you develop ketosis to some degree,
above it generally not.

Assuming zero carbs and 58% conversion of protein to glucose, that means
someone eating 172 g protein would be generating the 100 grams of
glucose which would prevent ketosis. What percentage of the diet that
represents would be irrelevant.

i od kogos innego

Food is either ketogenic or glucogenic depending on their conversion of glucose in the body. Dietary fats are the most ketogenic (which is why they make up the majority of your calorie intake) with only about 10% efficiency of conversion to glucose. Protein is semi-ketogenic, with an efficiency of about 58% (because of the varying ketogenic nature of the amino acids, some are ketogenic, some are glucogenic, so you come out with an odd percentage). Then you have carbs that are completely glucogenic.

jeszce ktos inny

# It might be a good idea to choose our protein-foods more carefully, so as to minimize the percentage that converts to sugar. The 58% represents an average derived from a mixture of protein-foods. Specific protein yield slightly less than the 58% average, and some yield slightly more. For example, 68% of gelatin converts to glucose, whereas the protein in egg yields only 54%.(This should be a very important heads up to people who consider gelatin to be a 'free food'). Less potential body fat comes from eggs than from gelatin.
# Since protein yields amino acids, amino acids yield glucose, and glucose can convert to body fat, it is obvious that too much protein can create or maintain body fat.
# Because of the facts we have learned, we can more easily understand the mystery of why some people lose weight easily on the low carbohydrate plan while others have severe difficulty. The specific types of protein foods we chose will make a difference in the percentage of conversion to carbohydrates. Additionally, the efficiency in which different people's bodies are able to convert protein to sugar will make a big difference. That is to say, how well a person's liver engages in the gluconeogensis process, is crucial factor. Those people who can eat all the protein they want (along with low levels of "regular" carbohydrates, of course) and still lose weight easily, likely have a less efficient gluconeogenesis process in their bodies than those of us who eat the same foods and don't lose weight.
# Although we tend to want to look for specific foods causing a weight loss stall, or for specific foods that we shouldn't eat because of a food intolerance, it may be much more likely that the quantity of protein eaten (above what is needed) is the major slowing factor in weight loss.
# All that we have learned about carbohydrates and proteins gives us an additional fact to refute nay-sayers who tell us that restricting our carbohydrates is unhealthy. We now see that except for our need to eat vegetables for the vitamins and minerals they contain, there is no real need to eat any carbohydrates at all, as long as we eat sufficient protein. Some 58% of the protein we eat will become carbohydrates, and we will have plenty for our energy needs.
# It is still better to eat protein than to eat sugar. 100% of carbohydrates are carbohydrates. Only part of the protein becomes carbohydrates.
# It is probably a good idea to eat less of the incomplete protein foods, such as gelatin. Since these foods are lacking one or more of the essential amino acids, they cannot provide our protein needs, yet they will still become sugar when they are broken down.
# High carbohydrate foods that also contain protein actually have more carbohydrates than we previously thought, since some 58% of the protein portion will become additional sugar. This is especially a problem with corn, since in addition to being a high carbohydrate food, corn contains incomplete proteins. The carbohydrate count is therefore higher, while the protein may be useless to your body. Another example of a high carbohydrate food containing incomplete protein is flour.
# We have more reason to be diligent in choosing to get our carbohydrates from 'legal' vegetables, and maybe a few fruits, rather than from junk foods since those foods give us more carbohydrates than we think.

Fakty, nie mity
'Alternatywna Droga'

m mojej opinii nie jest potrzebna ketoza, aby na dietach niskoww tracic tluszcz i oszczedzac miesnie stad optuje za odpowiednia iloscia bilka w zakresie 1,5-2 g na kg ciala (do wlasnych manipulacji)

Fakty, nie mity
'Alternatywna Droga'

Z kalkulatora korzystałem własnie przy wyliczeniu tego mojego 185g białka i 185 gram tłuszczu przy 12cal/lb/day

Nie spodziewałem się tak wysokiej konwersji białek do glukozy - ciekawe jak to jest w przypadku łatwo przyswajalnych odżywek białkowych typu 90% białko serwatki.

Z iloscia białka trzeba więc bedzie poeksperymentować i dodatkowo dobrze zastanowić się nad jego źródłami


Pozdrawiam, Tyka

zamiast dawać soga kliknij tu : http://www.pajacyk.pl 

ale jestem i tak zdania ze nie trzeba sie we wszystko tak zaglebiac - przynajmniej na poziomie amatorskim (choc sie zaglebiac lubie - wystarczy stosowac wazne zasady i powinno byc dobrze ...ale to moje zdanie bo lubie miec swoje

Wiedza to podstawa ... ale im wiecej wiemy tym bardziej sie boimy

Cóż, ja jestem dociekliwy i lubię wiedzieć za dużo niż za mało Jak to będzie wyglądać w praktyce to się dopiero okaże. W zeszłym roku CKD zadziałała bardzo ładnie, mam nadzieję że i z TKD w tym roku sobie poradzę.
Dzięki wszystkim za odpowiedzi, rady i komentarze.

Pozdrawiam, Tyka

zamiast dawać soga kliknij tu : http://www.pajacyk.pl 

Nie tylko trawienie białka, ale i neoglukogeneza jest procesem bardzo energochłonnym i wytworzona w jej wyniku glukoza jest w znacznym stopniu zużywana już w wątrobie. Dlatego nie przejmuję się zbytnio stopą konwersji białka do glukozy, dopóki podstawowym źródłem energii jest tłuszcz (zużywany na metabolizm spoczynkowy i aeroby). Dopiero przy ćwiczeniach anaerobowych neoglukogeneza się nasila, i jeśli się jej odpowiednio szybko nie przystopuje (przez BCAA i/lub w/w), będzie się utrzymywać 'z rozpędu' również po treningu. Ponieważ prowadzi to do przedłużonego katabolizmu mięśni, diety wysokobiałkowe doprowadzają do spadku masy mięśniowej, gdyż nie występuje przy nich wzrost ilości lipaz komórkowych, i glukoza pozostaje podstawowym źródłem energii.



Zmieniony przez - jogger w dniu 2003-04-13 00:27:11