Kiai- magia, czy sztuka walki?

Hm....dziwnie mi to pachnie firmą Tsunami Sp. z o.o.

Trochę o Ki( http://101.24fightingchickens.com/25_terms.html ):


"Ki is an common word in Japan. Ki is used in so many different combinations and idioms, that its original meaning has been lost. Much as some of our foul language in English has been used to express anger rather than speak about some offensive act or object, the word ki is used to refer to things totally unrelated to ki. This does not mean that there is an all encompassing life force that the Japanese call ki. It does not mean that the Japanese believe in such an energy field.

The word itself is defined in the dictionary like so:

The air.
Atmosphere.
A feeling.
Energy (as in to feel energetic)

The word is used in hundreds of expressions, each indicating a texture, a feeling, an emotion, or ability. The original word, whatever its ancient meaning was, is now lost. So, ignore anything that you read in pseudo-psychic new age books about developing your Ki or extending your Ki. That mystical energy field is not there, and even if it were, it has nothing to do with karate. The Japanese definitely, as a nation, do not believe in a mystical Ki force.

Here are some common expressions using Ki. Decide for yourself if mystical powers are at work, or if people are just using idioms such as "As big as a house" (there is no house) or "Thick as a brick" (is a brick thick?).

Ki ga yowai (ki is weak) means that someone is timid or weak.
Ki ga tatsu (ki is standing) refers to being excited.
Ki ni naru (becoming ki) means disturbing.
Ki ni suru (to make into ki) is to mind, care, or worry about.
Ki ga mijikai (ki is short) means to be short tempered


As you can clearly see, ki is used in a variety of expressions. It generally is used to refer to an individual's personal emotional state. These expressions all indicate something about feelings, such as confidence vs. timidity, excited vs. calm, sick vs. well, or angry vs. happy. There is absolutely no reason for Westerners to use Ki as a New Age psychic power or force, and there is no reason to mystify the word.

There are some common expressions in karate that involve Ki that should be made more clear:


Ki o nobasu - extend ki
This simply means to extend the length of time of muscle tension in the impact point of a technique. If a Japanese instructor yells, "Extend ki!" they simply mean that you are relaxing too quickly from your initial muscle tension, and that you should extend it. It does not translate into English very well, but "Extend focus!" might be close in the karate world. Remember, kime can be of two types: long and extended, or short and choppy (normal). The last technique of Jion is extended ki in action.

Ki o tsukeru - attach ki
"Ki o tsuke!" is generally used in the West to call "Attention!" However, it actually means to pay attention, to mind what you are doing, or to listen up. In Western karate clubs, bowing is taken to extremes, unlike Japanese clubs, where bowing is hardly ever seen. In the West, "ki o tsuke," a rude and presumptuous command best left to older people, is commonly used to announce that we are about to bow. In Japan, however, bowing is done from a seated position at the beginning and end of the class, and bowing while standing is hardly done at all. This is not only an example of using the idiom for ki, it is also a good example of how Western karate clubs distort and Westernize everything that they do more or less.

While in Japan, I never encountered the command "Ki o tsuke." Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that the Japanese in America use it to counter the Western culture they must function in. Being called to attention is part of Western society, and it shuts up all the noise. In Japan, a dojo is like a library. All talking is at a very low volume.

Kiai - (1) spirit, heart, fight; (2) a cheer, shout, yell
Ki means energy, and Ai means harmonize, match, or meet. So, you must match your energy to the situation. Therefore, when fighting, one must be like an insane berzerker, throwing as much "fight" into the the fight as possible. When finished, you must return to a calm, unconcerned state.


Kiai is also an idiom for shouting. There is no mystical meaning for kiai as far as shouting goes. It merely means to "shout." I have heard more than one person try to explain kiai as a thing that "...just happens. You should kiai before the yell." I'm afraid not. The kiai is the shout. The shout is the kiai. That's all the word really means, and anyone who tells you it means more than that is just repeating nonsense or making stuff up.

What's really funny is that it is usually the Japano-freaks who are so hyper about uttering an indulgently samurai-like yell when they are practicing in front of others. However, while I was training in Japan, most of my fellow students were afraid to kiai in class unless performing a kata or ordered to do so. In fact, a lot of people didn't ever kiai at all. During basic techniques, only 2 or 3 individuals would kiai on the tenth technique, whereas in the West everyone will kiai on the tenth technique. Training in Japan is mostly silent except for a few senior students growling in low volume tones.

To be honest, the more I think about it, I don't agree anymore with the practice of yelling on the tenth technique during a karate class, or when turning around. In fact, I don't agree with ever yelling at all as part of karate practice. I think this behavior is part of an esoteric Japanese tradition with no practical value. These days, I don't yell anything even at the established points in kata."

Nie chce mi się tłumaczyć

Moja mama posiadla ta sztuke, kiedy na mnie wrzeszczy to mam ochote *******lac gdzies daleko, i jedna moja przyjaciolka ,teraz juz wiem ze trenuje jakas dziwna odmiane kiai- poniewaz kiedy placze to mysle nad samobojstwem.zabijanie placzem co Wy na to?:)

śmiejcie się śmiejcie

poza tym w tym tekście jest to jakoś dziwnie opisane

Zmieniony przez - Zdzisiu w dniu 2004-03-14 09:01:31

"śmiejcie się śmiejcie "

Zdzisiu miej litość...
Nie mów że w to wierzysz.

Bullshit Ale przytoczę co słyszałem o kiai w odniesieniu do starych mistrzów - izolowali się oni w górach i obserwowali reakcje zwierząt. Ich zdaniem prawdziwie mistrzowski okrzyk powoduje, że małe zwierzęta nie uciekają a udają martwe. Ile w tym prawdy nie mam pojęcia

ni tylko isc do lasu i zacza krzyczec na wiewiorki i pajaki

w sumie niezla opcja...
"dawaj kase, palancie" krzyczy drechol, a my mu jakas fachowa arie z "Dance Macabre" walimy i po krzyku

a seryjnie to trudno cokolwiek powiedziec. moze kiedys dawno temu, jak male zolte ludziki poswiecaly dziesiatki lat pustelnictwa w gorach, to i moze jakies cuda niewidy wymyslali. w koncu skads ten pomysl musial powstac.

heh. wszystko kwestia treningu :>

Raziel, pomyśl logicznie... to nie jest fizycznie możliwe by się wyuczyć takiego okrzyka

jedyna rzecz ktora zostala ze sztuki KIAI to nikle okrzyki w karate ( przy kata ) , moze aikido .....
najwiecej pozostalosci z KIAi jest jednak w Kendo. malo kto wie o tym, bo kendo popularne nie jest, ale zaswiadczam ze KIAI w kendo to podstawa, Sam trenuje od niedawna i bylem szczerze zdziwiony co okrzyk moze zrobic z drugim czlowiekiem- oczywiscie nie zabic, ale przestraszyc, dodac sil, unieruchomic - sam sprawdzilem na treningach :)
Pierwszy post to cytat z ksiazki pana Morissa, ktory jest wybitnym znawca zbrojnen Japonii i watpie w to ze klamie - fakt ze stare kroniki czesto nadwyrezaja rzeczywistosc, ale w kazdej takiej opowiesci jest ziarno prawdy, Ja wierze w to ze KIAI bylo kiedys naprawde potezna bronia i wierze ze mozna wygrac walke dzieki KIAI bez kontaktu fizycznego.
Zainteresowanych zapraszam na treningi Kendo, zeby posluchali, a reszcie zycze troche wiecej szacunku do sredniowiecznych podan - kiedys ludzie tez nie wierzyli ze bedziemy latac samolotami, a za 1000 lat nikt nie uwierzy ze kiedyc nie mielismy sztucznej inteligencji, tak to jest...